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#openstack-nova - 2020-08-26
11:53:25 sean-k-mooney we might have a skip for the rbd backend
11:54:29 sean-k-mooney noonedeadpunk: storage is one area i understand but avoid so the details are not something i rember and have to lookup each time
11:55:10 bauzas whoops
11:55:31 bauzas gibi: any reason why you based https://review.opendev.org/#/c/742407/4 on top of https://review.opendev.org/#/c/741500/10 ?
11:55:43 sean-k-mooney bauzas: a little over eger to be back :)
11:56:14 gibi bauzas: I have no ide how I made that
11:56:14 noonedeadpunk Ok, so I have the following situation: some of the users, despite we don't have non-zero flavors in terms of disks, some of them still press "do not create volume" button in horizon, which creates ephemeral volume in ceph with size equall to the image size. And then they return crying that all data has been lost in case of some reboot/rebuilt/etc
11:56:29 openstackgerrit Balazs Gibizer proposed openstack/nova master: Undeprecate the vmwareapi driver https://review.opendev.org/742407
11:56:33 bauzas gibi: cool
11:56:36 sean-k-mooney its merged now so it does not really matter
11:56:45 sean-k-mooney the vtpm patch
11:56:53 bauzas yup
11:57:02 bauzas but this was confusing me
11:57:13 bauzas as I was looking at the hairy vtpm series
11:57:16 gibi bauzas: thanks for noticing
11:57:17 sean-k-mooney gibi: you proably were reviewing stephens patch before
11:57:30 bauzas (and gosh, this spec is... terrible https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/victoria/approved/add-emulated-virtual-tpm.html )
11:57:35 gibi sean-k-mooney: could be
11:58:05 sean-k-mooney hehe its a good way to get extra review :P
11:58:26 sean-k-mooney put random patches into a seriese in the runway
11:58:31 gibi lol
11:58:43 gibi I make a mental note to do it more often
11:58:44 gibi :D
11:59:17 sean-k-mooney with the amount of patches in stephens seriese im not even sure he would notice one more when he is rebaseing them all
11:59:31 gibi :D
11:59:54 gibi btw, stephenfin: I've finished reading and commenting the vtpm series
12:00:12 sean-k-mooney it looks like they are all approved
12:00:33 sean-k-mooney at least for spwan
12:00:40 sean-k-mooney the move operation are still pending
12:01:00 gibi yeah, spawn seems pretty solid to me
12:01:43 sean-k-mooney this will make efried happy to see
12:03:00 bauzas I'm just reviewing the rest of the series
12:03:32 bauzas but honestly, mho is that we tried to be gentlemen with vtpm usage, by overcomplicating what we were providing as a feature :)
12:03:46 bauzas trying to have vtpm instances be pets is nice
12:04:16 bauzas but we're pulling swift and trying to do maths to get whether we can still migrate an emulated file device or not, which overcomplicates things
12:04:30 bauzas but this is what it is, the spec is approved
12:05:14 sean-k-mooney well we try to make it behave like a real server
12:05:53 bauzas this is cloud
12:06:04 sean-k-mooney yep
12:06:09 bauzas most of the operations are admin-managed
12:06:26 sean-k-mooney in a cloud that would be atypical
12:06:30 bauzas so in this case, trying to solve all the problems is nice, but this comes with a cost
12:06:51 sean-k-mooney well one of the proposal was no move operations
12:06:55 bauzas but the ship has sailed.
12:07:04 sean-k-mooney which was very non admin frendly
12:07:22 bauzas I'm okay with creating a fresh new tpm device with move operations
12:07:32 bauzas what I'm struggling with is trying to reuse the existing data
12:07:43 bauzas this should be app-managed
12:07:44 sean-k-mooney the check is pretty simple
12:07:56 sean-k-mooney if anything changes version or type then data is not perserved
12:08:08 sean-k-mooney if the version and type do not change we copy it
12:08:20 stephenfin bauzas: well, don't worry about swift. None of that is done
12:08:24 sean-k-mooney the special case is shelve
12:08:31 stephenfin Is we might never do it. For now, shelve is simply blocked
12:08:36 sean-k-mooney where we ahve to store it somewhere which is swift
12:09:07 sean-k-mooney bauzas: the alternitive was to stick it in glance as a second image
12:09:31 sean-k-mooney or not store it at all
12:11:28 bauzas sean-k-mooney: yup, I saw in the series
12:11:35 bauzas the shelve case is the most complicated
12:11:50 bauzas I also have concerns with rebuild
12:12:18 bauzas trying to reuse the existing backup file is nice, but as a user I'd expect a fresh vTPM device if I rebuild
12:12:21 sean-k-mooney rebuild preseves the data if the version/type of tpm does not change
12:12:39 sean-k-mooney bauzas: that fails the do what hardware does guideline
12:12:46 bauzas this data is ephemeral, right?
12:12:52 sean-k-mooney bauzas: if you reinstall the os on your laptop your tpm is not cleared
12:13:12 bauzas ah, you're right, if you wanna mock the baremetal case
12:13:26 bauzas but in this case, all moves are just data loss
12:13:56 bauzas especially when I read https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/victoria/approved/add-emulated-virtual-tpm.html#migrations-and-their-ilk
12:13:57 bauzas brr...
12:13:58 sean-k-mooney bauzas: one of the usecases for this is storing encyrption keys or certs for authentication
12:14:29 sean-k-mooney so if you have data volumes or use the tpm as a cert store and use rebuild to upgrade your application you would not want to loose that data
12:14:30 bauzas gibi: thoughts on keeping a list of CI maintainers somewhere in https://review.opendev.org/#/c/742407/5
12:14:40 bauzas gibi: if you have remembrance of anything about this...
12:14:50 openstackgerrit Merged openstack/nova master: Fix indentation nits https://review.opendev.org/746765
12:14:56 openstackgerrit Merged openstack/nova master: Remove deprecated scheduler filters https://review.opendev.org/744800
12:15:04 sean-k-mooney bauzas: all move operation in the sepc are currently data perserving
12:15:21 bauzas I do understand the usecase
12:15:21 sean-k-mooney bauzas: we just copy the tpm data form one host to another
12:15:31 bauzas I'm just saying we are adding more than necessary
12:15:42 bauzas but again, the ship has sailed
12:16:01 sean-k-mooney bauzas: well it was felt that without perserving the data on move ops we could not resonably support them
12:16:02 openstackgerrit Merged openstack/nova master: tests: Add helpers for rebuild, cold migrate, and shelve/unshelve https://review.opendev.org/747792
12:16:46 sean-k-mooney bauzas: complexity is a valid concern but i think the current semantics are what i would expect
12:19:51 bauzas sean-k-mooney: yup, and again, I won't bother
12:20:02 bauzas we had a consensus, I do respect it.
12:20:55 efried A lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into getting that spec to where it is.
12:21:14 efried Which involved some very heavy tradeoffs and compromises along the way.
12:21:33 efried There's some saying like, "You know it's a good compromise when nobody is happy."
12:22:57 efried Specifically to address the notion of pets: if you want a TPM, your VM is already a pet.
12:23:55 gibi efried: o/
12:23:57 efried I will say that I am happy to see things like vTPM and provider config merging now -- two releases after I stopped working on them, which was multiple releases after I (and others) started working on them.
12:23:58 elod lyarwood: btw, should we wait this to merge too? >>> https://review.opendev.org/#/c/744550/
12:24:25 lyarwood elod: that's less important tbh
12:24:42 lyarwood elod: just a nice to have, the other change fixes an issue introduced by an earlier change
12:26:01 sean-k-mooney efried: yep it will be nice to see them in the victoria project update hopefully as highlights
12:27:26 elod lyarwood: ok, then I've updated the release patch
12:28:38 elod the other patch unfortunately had to recheck anyway, so it would mean at least 3-4 hrs to merge...
12:32:11 bauzas gibi: lyarwood: stephenfin: -1 for relnote on https://review.opendev.org/#/c/631363/61
12:33:13 bauzas stephenfin: I'm currently digging the long list of https://review.opendev.org/#/q/topic:bp/add-emulated-virtual-tpm+status:merged but I can't find where we defined docs
12:33:15 gibi ack, do we need to pull it out of the gate?

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