Index
2013-07-09 18:05G Gambill : [NF] Reverse Engineering … Legality
2013-07-09 18:09Virgil Bierschwale : RE: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality
2013-07-09 18:18Jeff Johnson : Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality
2013-07-09 18:28Virgil Bierschwale : RE: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality
2013-07-09 18:47Sytze de Boer : Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering … Legality
2013-07-09 19:54Jeff Johnson : Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering … Legality
2013-07-10 02:35Alan Bourke : Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality
2013-07-10 02:52Allen : RE: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality
2013-07-10 02:54AndyHC : Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality
2013-07-10 05:57Ted Roche : Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality
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[NF] Reverse Engineering … Legality

Author: G Gambill

Posted: 2013-07-09 18:05:30   Link

What do you call it (technical name) when a company installs $45,000 worth

of evaluation software (with a dysfunctional security program to restrict

functionality and a termination routine that renders the program totally

non-functional after a set date.) on their computer and reverse engineers

the software and removes the the evaluation restrictions, without paying

for it?

Anyone know if this would this be considered a felony?

TIA

George

--

Success builds confidence. Failure builds knowledge.

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RE: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

Author: Virgil Bierschwale

Posted: 2013-07-09 18:09:02   Link

I would call it stealing, but I hate thieves

-----Original Message-----

From: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of G Gambill

Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 6:05 PM

To: ProFoxTech List

Subject: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

What do you call it (technical name) when a company installs $45,000 worth

of evaluation software (with a dysfunctional security program to restrict

functionality and a termination routine that renders the program totally

non-functional after a set date.) on their computer and reverse engineers

the software and removes the the evaluation restrictions, without paying for

it?

Anyone know if this would this be considered a felony?

TIA

George

--

Success builds confidence. Failure builds knowledge.

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[excessive quoting removed by server]

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©2013 Virgil Bierschwale
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Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

Author: Jeff Johnson

Posted: 2013-07-09 18:18:30   Link

I agree, but what do you think about this? There is a medical hardware

company that sold their devices with software. The software company

went out of business and a lot of people legally own the hardware and

software but it is unusable because they can't get installation codes.

What would you call it if someone reverse engineered the installation

codes so the users could use their equipment?

Jeff

---------------

Jeff Johnson

jeff@san-dc.com

(623) 582-0323

www.san-dc.com

www.arelationshipmanager.com

On 07/09/2013 04:09 PM, Virgil Bierschwale wrote:

> I would call it stealing, but I hate thieves

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of G Gambill

> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 6:05 PM

> To: ProFoxTech List

> Subject: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

>

> What do you call it (technical name) when a company installs $45,000 worth

> of evaluation software (with a dysfunctional security program to restrict

> functionality and a termination routine that renders the program totally

> non-functional after a set date.) on their computer and reverse engineers

> the software and removes the the evaluation restrictions, without paying for

> it?

>

> Anyone know if this would this be considered a felony?

>

> TIA

>

> George

>

> --

> Success builds confidence. Failure builds knowledge.

>

>

> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---

> multipart/alternative

> text/plain (text body -- kept)

> text/html

> ---

>

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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©2013 Jeff Johnson
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RE: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

Author: Virgil Bierschwale

Posted: 2013-07-09 18:28:37   Link

That is legal.

They bought it.

They own it.

-----Original Message-----

From: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Johnson

Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 6:18 PM

To: profox@leafe.com

Subject: Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

I agree, but what do you think about this? There is a medical hardware

company that sold their devices with software. The software company went

out of business and a lot of people legally own the hardware and software

but it is unusable because they can't get installation codes.

What would you call it if someone reverse engineered the installation codes

so the users could use their equipment?

Jeff

---------------

Jeff Johnson

jeff@san-dc.com

(623) 582-0323

www.san-dc.com

www.arelationshipmanager.com

On 07/09/2013 04:09 PM, Virgil Bierschwale wrote:

> I would call it stealing, but I hate thieves

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of G Gambill

> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 6:05 PM

> To: ProFoxTech List

> Subject: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

>

> What do you call it (technical name) when a company installs $45,000

> worth of evaluation software (with a dysfunctional security program to

> restrict functionality and a termination routine that renders the

> program totally non-functional after a set date.) on their computer

> and reverse engineers the software and removes the the evaluation

> restrictions, without paying for it?

>

> Anyone know if this would this be considered a felony?

>

> TIA

>

> George

>

> --

> Success builds confidence. Failure builds knowledge.

>

>

> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative

> text/plain (text body -- kept)

> text/html

> ---

>

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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©2013 Virgil Bierschwale
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Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering … Legality

Author: Sytze de Boer

Posted: 2013-07-09 18:47:41   Link

I released such a program about 20 years ago. (Except it was only $450)

They used it for 2 years and then needed support

I fixed the security issue, disabled access after 7 days if it had their

company name, and updated their system.

Worked a treat.

Why do you ask about legality. Morality always takes precedence.

On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM, G Gambill <gwgambill@gmail.com> wrote:

> What do you call it (technical name) when a company installs $45,000 worth

> of evaluation software (with a dysfunctional security program to restrict

> functionality and a termination routine that renders the program totally

> non-functional after a set date.) on their computer and reverse engineers

> the software and removes the the evaluation restrictions, without paying

> for it?

>

> Anyone know if this would this be considered a felony?

>

> TIA

>

> George

>

> --

> Success builds confidence. Failure builds knowledge.

>

>

> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---

> multipart/alternative

> text/plain (text body -- kept)

> text/html

> ---

>

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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©2013 Sytze de Boer
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Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering … Legality

Author: Jeff Johnson

Posted: 2013-07-09 19:54:48   Link

Sytze: I love your answer!

Jeff

---------------

Jeff Johnson

jeff@san-dc.com

(623) 582-0323

www.san-dc.com

www.arelationshipmanager.com

On 07/09/2013 04:47 PM, Sytze de Boer wrote:

> I released such a program about 20 years ago. (Except it was only $450)

> They used it for 2 years and then needed support

> I fixed the security issue, disabled access after 7 days if it had their

> company name, and updated their system.

> Worked a treat.

>

> Why do you ask about legality. Morality always takes precedence.

>

>

>

>

> On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM, G Gambill <gwgambill@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>> What do you call it (technical name) when a company installs $45,000 worth

>> of evaluation software (with a dysfunctional security program to restrict

>> functionality and a termination routine that renders the program totally

>> non-functional after a set date.) on their computer and reverse engineers

>> the software and removes the the evaluation restrictions, without paying

>> for it?

>>

>> Anyone know if this would this be considered a felony?

>>

>> TIA

>>

>> George

>>

>> --

>> Success builds confidence. Failure builds knowledge.

>>

>>

>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---

>> multipart/alternative

>> text/plain (text body -- kept)

>> text/html

>> ---

>>

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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©2013 Jeff Johnson
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Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

Author: Alan Bourke

Posted: 2013-07-10 02:35:36   Link

On Wed, Jul 10, 2013, at 12:18 AM, Jeff Johnson wrote:

> I agree, but what do you think about this? There is a medical hardware

> company that sold their devices with software. The software company

> went out of business and a lot of people legally own the hardware and

> software but it is unusable because they can't get installation codes.

In that case, if the software vendor has gone bust and nobody bought the

rights, I say reverse away.

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RE: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

Author: Allen

Posted: 2013-07-10 02:52:51   Link

The company might have gone but it's possible someone has rights to the

code.

Al

-----Original Message-----

From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Alan

Bourke

Sent: 10 July 2013 09:36

To: profoxtech@leafe.com

Subject: Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

In that case, if the software vendor has gone bust and nobody bought the

rights, I say reverse away.

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Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

Author: AndyHC

Posted: 2013-07-10 02:54:32   Link

It used to be normal to have an escrow agreement in software licences so

that if the vendor went bust the source code would be released by the

third-party escrow holder.

On 10/07/2013 04:48, Jeff Johnson wrote:

> I agree, but what do you think about this? There is a medical

> hardware company that sold their devices with software. The software

> company went out of business and a lot of people legally own the

> hardware and software but it is unusable because they can't get

> installation codes. What would you call it if someone reverse

> engineered the installation codes so the users could use their equipment?

>

>

> Jeff

>

> ---------------

>

> Jeff Johnson

> jeff@san-dc.com

> (623) 582-0323

>

> www.san-dc.com

> www.arelationshipmanager.com

>

<snip>

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Re: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

Author: Ted Roche

Posted: 2013-07-10 05:57:44   Link

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of G Gambill

> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 6:05 PM

> To: ProFoxTech List

> Subject: [NF] Reverse Engineering . Legality

>

> What do you call it (technical name) when

It's not technical it's a legal issue. And if you're lucky, you won't find

a lawyer on this forum (*shudder*)

IANAL. You should contact one if you are involved.

It's likely a violation of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, DMCA, as

nearly everything is. But whether that is a felony, a misdemeanor a civil

violation, a venal sin, or an oopsie, I cannot even speculate.

--

Ted Roche

Ted Roche & Associates, LLC

http://www.tedroche.com

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©2013 Ted Roche