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#openstack-nova - 2022-07-26
16:54:08 sean-k-mooney this is why i dont like using that term
16:54:18 melwitt hey o/ thanks for discussing the naming bikeshed :) just wanted to get some confidence that ppl would prefer a name change and lessen the possibility of someone coming to the review later and saying "why did you change this, it should be changed back to ephemeral"
16:54:27 sean-k-mooney ephemeral is ambiguious
16:54:38 bauzas as is "evacuate" :D
16:54:53 bauzas our Gods of Naming didn't help
16:55:09 sean-k-mooney maybe we need dansmith to write another blog post
16:55:20 sean-k-mooney melwitt: ack so i guess the real question is
16:55:20 bauzas problem solved.
16:55:28 bauzas #action dansmith to write a blogpost
16:55:31 sean-k-mooney do we think channging the name will make thing clearer
16:55:35 dansmith heh
16:55:45 bauzas oh, snap, he saw it
16:55:46 opendevmeet Removing item from minutes: #action dansmith to write a blogpost
16:55:46 bauzas #undo
16:55:46 melwitt :)
16:55:52 dansmith In general, I'm not for renaming things like this
16:56:05 bauzas I'm not against renaming ity
16:56:17 bauzas I just wanted to make sure we all agree on what this is
16:56:30 bauzas ephemeral is a bad name, but that's a name we already use
16:56:34 dansmith because you'll end up with all old docs being inaccurate for new stuff, and people who already understand this will also have to change
16:56:46 melwitt that was one of my concerns
16:56:47 bauzas if we pick something else, this has to be better understandable about what it is
16:57:19 bauzas yeah, if we need to write some doc explaining "ephemeral" == "this new thing" this is bad
16:57:39 bauzas hence the challenge
16:58:00 gibi so this is considered a non fixable terminology mistake of the past?
16:58:08 bauzas like tenant ? :)
16:58:15 gibi we are fixing tenant
16:58:22 sean-k-mooney well to me that doc that is erfernce is not a nova doc
16:58:25 bauzas I know, I'm opening a can of worms
16:58:26 sean-k-mooney so we could jsut fix it
16:58:45 bauzas and pretend it never existed, heh ? :)
16:59:09 bauzas we're running out of time, but for the sake of the conversation, let's continue
16:59:13 sean-k-mooney well from my point of view the only thing that nova ever said was ephemreal is the falvor.ephemeral storage disks
16:59:22 bauzas I'll just formally end the meeting at the top of the hour
16:59:56 sean-k-mooney melwitt: are we encypting the flavor.epmermal disks by the way
17:00:00 sean-k-mooney or just root and swap
17:00:11 bauzas problem is
17:00:17 bauzas root is also "ephemeral"
17:00:17 sean-k-mooney i thikn we will be encypting all 3 types
17:00:28 sean-k-mooney bauzas: it depend on the difinition
17:00:28 bauzas (depending on the conf options)
17:00:31 sean-k-mooney form our api its not
17:00:39 melwitt sean-k-mooney: what is "flavor.ephemeral"? it is encrypting the root disk and any other attached local disks
17:01:09 sean-k-mooney in our flavor we have 3 types of storage
17:01:11 bauzas correct, the point is that *by default, we don't do any difference between root disk and other local (or non-local on shared) disk
17:01:21 sean-k-mooney root, swap and ephemeral
17:01:39 sean-k-mooney https://docs.openstack.org/nova/latest/user/flavors.html
17:01:50 melwitt ok, this is encrypting root and ephemeral, and not swap
17:01:56 bauzas right
17:02:00 bauzas about the new feature
17:02:18 sean-k-mooney so we proably should be encyrpting swap too but we can maybe add that next cycle
17:02:58 bauzas swap is out of scope AFAICT
17:03:10 sean-k-mooney im not sure why it would be
17:03:35 sean-k-mooney we declared it out of scope for this cycle i guess
17:03:47 sean-k-mooney but i would hope it woudl get done before we condire this fully complete
17:03:48 bauzas because swap isn't using QEMU file-based storage ?
17:03:54 sean-k-mooney it is
17:04:00 sean-k-mooney depending on your backend
17:04:11 bauzas f***
17:04:12 sean-k-mooney it will use a qcow files or a rbd volume
17:04:16 bauzas I'm not expert on swap
17:04:41 bauzas then, all disks (root, swap and others) go into a same bucket
17:04:57 bauzas which is by default the virt driver storage backend
17:05:07 melwitt basically this is encrypting things that are under the 'ephemerals' and 'image' keys in block_device_info: https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/826529/7/nova/virt/driver.py#107
17:05:40 melwitt 'swap' has its own key in block_device_info
17:06:45 sean-k-mooney so ephemerals should be the storage form flavor.ephemeral_gb
17:06:49 bauzas do we know if https://docs.openstack.org/nova/latest/configuration/config.html?highlight=ephemeral#DEFAULT.default_ephemeral_format is also used for root and swap ?
17:07:01 sean-k-mooney image is presumable the storage form flavor.root_gb
17:07:05 melwitt I don't know the reason swap is not included and I just checked the specs again and don't find it mentioned why
17:07:24 sean-k-mooney bauzas: no i belive that is for ephemeral_gb only
17:08:29 sean-k-mooney bauzas if you dont specy how you want flavor.ephemeral_gb to be devied up on the server create api request
17:08:38 sean-k-mooney we use that config to determin the format
17:08:53 sean-k-mooney and we provide a single ephemeral disk
17:09:27 sean-k-mooney but you can ask for nova to provide multiple disks as long as the total is equal to or less then flavor.ephemeral_gb
17:09:56 bauzas looks like I need to end this meeting
17:10:01 bauzas but let's continue
17:10:02 sean-k-mooney this gets modeled in the block device mapping info passed in the api request
17:10:04 sean-k-mooney ack
17:10:07 opendevmeet Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/nova/2022/nova.2022-07-26-16.00.log.html
17:10:07 opendevmeet Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/nova/2022/nova.2022-07-26-16.00.txt
17:10:07 opendevmeet Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/nova/2022/nova.2022-07-26-16.00.html
17:10:07 opendevmeet Meeting ended Tue Jul 26 17:10:07 2022 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
17:10:07 bauzas #endmeeting
17:10:37 bauzas I'm trying to see whether we have 'ephemeral' as an API contract besides the ephemeral disks
17:11:20 sean-k-mooney that depends on the definition of ephemeral
17:11:57 sean-k-mooney if you use ephemeral or not to imply falult tollerance then no
17:12:30 sean-k-mooney if you are using it to imply tied to lifecycle fo vm its no differnt then root other thatn its not included in snapshots
17:12:38 bauzas from a BDM perspective, nothing changes between a root disk and an ephemeral disk, right? (by default, I mean)
17:12:59 sean-k-mooney nothign major
17:13:10 sean-k-mooney they are slithgly differnt in that root will have an imave as it source
17:13:16 bauzas correct
17:13:17 sean-k-mooney and ephemeral disk are always empty
17:13:22 stephenfin totally unrelated to ephemeral stuff, but I think we're finally reading to switch from mock to unittest.mock
17:13:25 stephenfin The removal of Python 3.6 support simplifies our job significantly since the unittest.mock lib there was buggy as hell
17:13:47 sean-k-mooney stephenfin: i think i saw you respin that last week
17:13:48 stephenfin Do we want to prioritize reviews of that patch so we can avoid rebase hell? https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/714676/
17:14:02 stephenfin I think melwitt and sean-k-mooney have been interested in that in the past
17:14:07 stephenfin interested/involved
17:14:23 stephenfin sean-k-mooney: Yeah, I meant to do it sooner and, um, forgot
17:14:32 sean-k-mooney ya so we likely need to land the unshleve to host patch first but then i would be open to landing that next

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