| Posted | Nick | Remark | |
|---|---|---|---|
| #openstack-nova - 2019-06-03 | |||
| 08:23:08 | openstackgerrit | Luyao Zhong proposed openstack/nova master: support VM resizing with vpmem data migration https://review.opendev.org/634556 | |
| 08:33:50 | openstackgerrit | Takashi NATSUME proposed openstack/nova master: Fix no propagation of nova context request_id https://review.opendev.org/662715 | |
| 08:52:29 | gibi | stephenfin: I still wondering about what we should do with https://review.opendev.org/#/c/660774/3/nova/compute/manager.py@4471 | |
| 09:02:10 | openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/os-traits master: hw: cpu: Rework the directory layout; add missing traits https://review.opendev.org/655193 | |
| 09:03:38 | kashyap | aspiers: --^ :-) | |
| 09:03:45 | kashyap | (Morning, BTW) | |
| 09:04:31 | kashyap | cdent: Thanks for putting the above through. | |
| 09:04:41 | cdent | pleasure | |
| 09:05:15 | kashyap | cdent: Now, I think aspiers needs a new release of 'os_traits' with the above patch. | |
| 09:05:23 | cdent | yeah, doing that now | |
| 09:05:46 | kashyap | Ah, you're already 3 steps ahead; thanks! | |
| 09:28:24 | openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/nova stable/rocky: Block swap volume on volumes with >1 rw attachment https://review.opendev.org/662333 | |
| 09:44:17 | kashyap | alex_xu: Hi, when you're about: hope I answered your question here, on the MDS doc: https://review.opendev.org/#/c/661574/3 | |
| 10:10:24 | aspiers | bah, my znc crashed, no idea why | |
| 10:10:51 | aspiers | cdent: thanks for taking care of 0.13.0! | |
| 10:11:45 | cdent | you're welcome | |
| 10:12:39 | aspiers | cdent, kashyap: I guess we should have been using reno in os-traits, or is the policy not to bother? | |
| 10:13:10 | cdent | we've not bothered for the addition of traits | |
| 10:13:27 | kashyap | aspiers: I welcome using 'reno' where possible. | |
| 10:13:35 | aspiers | cdent: any particular reason why not? | |
| 10:13:49 | aspiers | might be useful for distro packages at least | |
| 10:13:50 | cdent | because it would be duplicating the contents of the files, almost verbatim | |
| 10:14:06 | aspiers | well, the contents of the commit messages maybe | |
| 10:14:09 | cdent | if there were something other than a list of strings in the package, it would make sense | |
| 10:14:24 | aspiers | no great loss I guess | |
| 10:14:39 | aspiers | although it doesn't sound like much additional effort either | |
| 10:14:46 | cdent | the reason we encourage the comments linking to docs is so that the point of the trait is obvious, with the trait | |
| 10:15:05 | cdent | I'd really rather not add that much redundancy | |
| 10:15:23 | aspiers | I'm thinking from the distro packager and operator perspective, not for developers | |
| 10:15:31 | aspiers | the former two shouldn't have to read code | |
| 10:15:50 | cdent | I think reno makes sense for the services, but for libraries that are merely symbols the distros should just do the normal thing: read the commit histroy | |
| 10:16:19 | aspiers | yeah, commit history is probably good enough | |
| 10:17:01 | cdent | I'm not trying to be a jerk about it or anything, it's just that there's limited capacity and things like that level of white glove service is why some people choose disros | |
| 10:18:19 | aspiers | sure | |
| 10:18:43 | aspiers | you're succeeding, not just trying :) | |
| 10:19:12 | cdent | some other day I'll successfully be a jerk | |
| 10:19:38 | aspiers | I'm sure; I can promise you it's pretty easy - for me anyway ;-) | |
| 10:20:10 | cdent | I've been having quite a lot of thoughts (mostly vague) lately on how to economize upstream development | |
| 10:23:01 | cdent | mostly with regard to making gaps more visible | |
| 10:26:40 | aspiers | oh? | |
| 10:26:54 | aspiers | what kinds of gaps? | |
| 10:30:39 | cdent | aspiers: some of the concepts are sort of in this https://anticdent.org/openstack-denver-summit-reflection.html but basically: making it more obvious where we don't have enough resources by simply choosing to not do things | |
| 10:33:36 | aspiers | cdent: yikes! 60-80 hours? | |
| 10:33:59 | cdent | at least | |
| 10:34:02 | aspiers | I do 30 (well, theoretically - probably do more due to same self-imposed perverse sense of loyalty) | |
| 10:35:54 | aspiers | all good thoughts there | |
| 10:36:02 | cdent | Is that 30 of upstream work plus some amount of time of other work, or 30 is your work week, or something else? | |
| 10:36:28 | aspiers | work week | |
| 10:37:03 | cdent | I'm very happy to hear that you're able to do that, there really needs to be more of that. | |
| 10:38:02 | aspiers | I don't understand why any developer outside a startup would need to work long weeks | |
| 10:38:40 | cdent | interesting. you're the only one I speak to regularly who has said they do not | |
| 10:39:03 | aspiers | 40 I can understand, but why more? | |
| 10:39:19 | aspiers | I mean, if you get paid for the overtime then fair enough, otherwise it seems crazy | |
| 10:39:31 | cdent | obsessiveness | |
| 10:39:37 | aspiers | If I'm gonna hack in my spare time, it'll be on other FOSS | |
| 10:39:47 | cdent | the aforementioned perverse loyalty | |
| 10:39:49 | aspiers | Hah, I'm totally obsessive too | |
| 10:40:30 | cdent | there's also a twisted sense of "must keep the dream (a vague thing) alive" | |
| 10:40:32 | aspiers | If opendev Gerrit had an activity infogram like GitHub does, you'd see me doing plenty at weekends. but then I take it easier in the week to balance things out | |
| 10:40:50 | aspiers | As in, "OpenStack is dying, gotta save it" ? | |
| 10:40:58 | aspiers | I think it's a long way from that | |
| 10:41:24 | cdent | something a bit like that, but not quite the same. not quite openstack is dying, but some of the economic models associated with it | |
| 10:41:45 | aspiers | yeah maybe | |
| 10:42:04 | cdent | for me, personally, a lot of it was the goal of getting placement extracted | |
| 10:42:16 | aspiers | Well that's a nice thing to be proud of, looking back | |
| 10:42:17 | cdent | since it was supposed to be extracted from the start, it was, to me, 3 years late | |
| 10:42:37 | cdent | so each year it was more late, was more uphill that needed to be travelled | |
| 10:42:47 | aspiers | know the feeling | |
| 11:00:08 | kashyap | cdent: Do write it up. (Yikes, indeed! 60-80 hours) | |
| 11:00:42 | cdent | kashyap: the blog post written above is a start, but there will probably be some followups if the feedback loop is sufficiently dense | |
| 11:01:38 | kashyap | I also try not to do more than 40 (focused) hours, effectively they translate to 38 1/2 (official). | |
| 11:02:16 | cdent | I think the "focused" thing is a bit of a trap. Presumably we should charge our employers for the time it takes to get warmed up, and the time it cost for them to interrupt us? | |
| 11:02:27 | kashyap | Fewer hours, restful sleep, comfortably paced days, realistic deadlines, time to consider --- these are things I value for a long, sustaible stint in this industry. | |
| 11:02:59 | kashyap | cdent: Yeah, I know what you mean; when we "turn off", our minds are still on the problem often times. There's a lot of "residue" that needs cleaned up | |
| 11:03:44 | kashyap | I feel, that's one reason why most people those who do intense knowledge work don't feel restored after a weekend. | |
| 11:05:40 | cdent | or to go the other way why some people who do intense knowledge work prefer not to come down off the intensity: it takes too much effort to get back up there | |
| 11:08:16 | kashyap | cdent: Ha: "I've limited my sphere of concern" -- sounds like Stoicism :-) | |
| 11:08:48 | aspiers | kashyap: I've done the same | |
| 11:09:00 | cdent | kashyap: yes it's exactly that | |
| 11:09:08 | cdent | accept the things I cannot change, and such | |
| 11:09:21 | kashyap | [Look up "Epictetus and sphere of choice"] | |
| 11:09:23 | aspiers | I've weaned myself away from being the bottleneck for various downstream stuff | |
| 11:09:37 | kashyap | aspiers: Excellent; effective > productive. | |
| 11:09:46 | aspiers | People were always like "oh, it's an HA problem, ask aspiers" | |
| 11:10:22 | aspiers | but I'm managing to get away from that | |
| 11:11:33 | kashyap | aspiers: Yeah, I hear you. Spreading expertise is always a challenge, and is a deliberate choice | |
| 11:12:08 | aspiers | I made some training slides, gave some training sessions, recorded them, made the videos available, documented as much as I could | |
| 11:12:27 | aspiers | then just point people at that | |
| 11:12:55 | kashyap | Yeah, you did more than you can. | |
| 11:13:20 | johnthetubaguy | some of the most productive folks I know are always very good at FAQ management like that, I wish I was better at it! | |
| 11:14:00 | kashyap | johnthetubaguy: Yes! "Document _anything_ that moves" is the motto I try to drill down to whoever is willing to listen :D | |
| 11:14:17 | kashyap | (Triply important when everyone is remote) | |
| 11:15:32 | kashyap | cdent: On another point from your post: "it probably also means limiting required attendance to events like PTGs and summits" | |
| 11:16:39 | kashyap | I've said it before, I'll say it again: it is absolute baloney for people to _insist_ to join 2 PTGs. (Let alone the maddening times when people were having *4* in-person meet-ups at a time, running around like head-less chickens.) | |
| 11:17:40 | cdent | I don't mind them existing. I mind them being exclusive | |
| 11:17:44 | kashyap | cdent: IOW, I'm with your view there; and people should *learn* to write better, and engage in written discussion. Of course, _do_ meet in person, by all means; it's vital. But limit it to once (and make it optional). People have various reasons. | |
| 11:17:52 | cdent | If, for example, red hat sent all openstack engineers to the ptg, then cool | |
| 11:17:58 | cdent | but if only special ones can go, that's bs | |
| 11:19:39 | cdent | kashyap: yes on the writing | |
| 11:19:51 | cdent | but you and I have covered that many times | |