| Posted | Nick | Remark | |
|---|---|---|---|
| #openstack-nova - 2017-09-21 | |||
| 20:59:59 | cdent | huh | |
| 21:00:37 | cdent | first I started hearing about it was last week | |
| 21:02:48 | mriedem | god man idk, we just had the ptg and i was already annoyed with how much stuff we talked about which has no chance of making queens | |
| 21:04:52 | melwitt | I feel that way too but try to remind myself that ppl just wanted to make sure placement would be able to model the stuff they want to do whenever nested RPs is ready | |
| 21:05:18 | mriedem | and then how to use placement to make your toast | |
| 21:05:23 | melwitt | I think that could have been accomplished with fewer hours than were spent, but yeah | |
| 21:05:28 | mriedem | with the "grape jelly" trait | |
| 21:05:50 | melwitt | heh | |
| 21:06:44 | dansmith | we had already been over a lot of that stuff before | |
| 21:06:49 | cdent | I think it’s a bit unfair to expect people not to want to talk when they only have a chance to really talk maybe 2-4 times a year | |
| 21:06:52 | dansmith | I was fairly annoyed, but I'm sure nobody noticed | |
| 21:06:55 | mriedem | the forum is now supposed to be the place to get the ops and users in the same room, so i kind of just want to get topic submissions from those groups | |
| 21:07:38 | mriedem | i have accepted that everytime we get together we're going to talk about stuff that we aren't going to do in that release | |
| 21:08:40 | mriedem | just hard to juggle that plus knowing we have bugs to fix in pike yet, and things to get done in queens, without thinking about all the future things, it's overwhelming | |
| 21:09:03 | cdent | it is indeed, but it is that overwhelmedness that makes people want to talk | |
| 21:09:47 | mriedem | i come from swedish heritage, | |
| 21:09:52 | mriedem | we don't want to talk about anything | |
| 21:10:00 | mriedem | except jellied fish carcass | |
| 21:10:06 | cdent | mmmmm jellied fish | |
| 21:10:36 | melwitt | and it's kind of lose lose in that if ppl didn't go over things repeatedly and make sure placement would work for them, if they waited quietly and when it was done, it couldn't model the things they needed, they'd be told, "why did you talk to us?" | |
| 21:10:54 | melwitt | *why didn't you talk to us | |
| 21:11:16 | melwitt | so ... I dunno. I see both sides | |
| 21:11:26 | cdent | I wanted creamed herring, not pickled! | |
| 21:11:43 | mriedem | i think i said this after boston, but i'd kind of like to go to a summit to actually sit in on user/ops talks where they talk about how they are actually using openstack and problems they are hitting | |
| 21:12:02 | mriedem | assuming those talks aren't just pushing some product message | |
| 21:12:27 | melwitt | I went to one ops midcycle when it was near where I live, and it was like that | |
| 21:12:47 | cdent | are those ops concerned with all this nfv, enhanced platform hoopa joop? | |
| 21:12:51 | mriedem | that's what sdague said the ops meetup in philly was like too | |
| 21:12:59 | mriedem | cdent: i don't think so | |
| 21:13:22 | melwitt | no, they were mostly focused on running clusters, upgrading, deploying, that kind of stuff | |
| 21:13:29 | mriedem | dansmith: L16 is for you https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SYD-nova-brainstorming | |
| 21:13:33 | mriedem | mikal: ^ and you | |
| 21:13:46 | dansmith | mriedem: oh good. | |
| 21:14:00 | cdent | yeah, that’s what I would assume too, so the force of all this epa stuff is depressing | |
| 21:15:04 | melwitt | yeah | |
| 21:15:54 | openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/os-traits master: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/503646 | |
| 21:18:51 | mriedem | btw, i thought the ptg was very productive overall | |
| 21:18:57 | mriedem | even though maybe i don't express that | |
| 21:19:05 | cdent | we see it in your eyes | |
| 21:20:28 | cdent | I think for the summit maybe we should just put a moratorium on placement? we have a backlog of at least two cycles, and we’ve had the discussions at the ptg. maybe generic device management stuff is a thing, but it’s only placement in the sense that those things are resource providers | |
| 21:20:50 | mriedem | i do take solace in the fact that the other etherpads on the wiki are pretty much empty | |
| 21:20:52 | cdent | I’d much rather see us focus on listening, as you said, to users/ops | |
| 21:21:28 | melwitt | I agree all sessions should be ops-focused and more about listening | |
| 21:21:39 | mriedem | like, i want to go here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SYD-ops-session-ideas | |
| 21:25:35 | dansmith | forum was also originally pitched as being the middle of the cycle where we'd sync up on things in progress like we used to, | |
| 21:25:44 | dansmith | because they shifted the schedule | |
| 21:26:03 | dansmith | so I certainly don't want to avoid talking about bits of placement (or anything else) material to the act of getting important things landed | |
| 21:26:36 | dansmith | and of course, the listening to ops stuff will likely necessarily end up talking about future things anyway, if it's feature gaps, etc | |
| 21:26:37 | cdent | dansmith: that’s not how I remember it? I thought it was “shortly after the latest release to get feedback from people”. | |
| 21:27:04 | dansmith | cdent: very few people install the release shortly after the release | |
| 21:27:10 | cdent | I know, but that was the pitch | |
| 21:27:12 | mriedem | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-September/121783.html | |
| 21:27:22 | dansmith | there was definitely a "people who need a midcycle could do it during the forum" argument | |
| 21:27:22 | mriedem | "Sydney marks the start of Rocky's release cycle, where ideas and requirements will be gathered. Users should aim to come armed with feedback from Augusts's Pike release if at all possible." | |
| 21:28:08 | cdent | “on the priorities and 'blue sky' ideas for the next release.” is both terrifying and exciting | |
| 21:28:15 | mriedem | we had some sessions in boston which were "here is a problem, this is what we plan on doing about it, does that work for you opsy people?" | |
| 21:28:32 | mriedem | i don't know what we have like that for queens | |
| 21:28:41 | cdent | huh, I thought ptg was the replacement for the midcycle, not forum for the midcycle | |
| 21:28:56 | cdent | mriedem: is that because the dance card is full? | |
| 21:28:57 | dansmith | the format of the midcycle was moved to ptg | |
| 21:29:06 | dansmith | instead of design summit style | |
| 21:29:10 | mriedem | and the ptg replaced the dev summit at the start of the release | |
| 21:29:12 | dansmith | but they shifted the schedle | |
| 21:29:15 | dansmith | right | |
| 21:29:40 | mriedem | so now it's semi scheduled blocks of things in a midcycle setting with no ops or users | |
| 21:29:55 | mriedem | well, some ops | |
| 21:30:04 | mriedem | cburgess and med_ <3 | |
| 21:30:22 | edleafe | cdent: PTG is supposed to be planning for the upcoming cycle. Forum is supposed to be more like a midcycle | |
| 21:30:42 | mriedem | except midcycles of yore weren't time boxed | |
| 21:30:52 | mriedem | and didn't cost $3000 to go to | |
| 21:30:55 | dansmith | more like a midcycle, meaning scheduling | |
| 21:31:02 | cdent | edleafe: that’s not at all my understanding, and nor does it correspond to the email that mriedem just linked to | |
| 21:31:30 | dansmith | cdent: certainly you've noticed that the early messaging, the late messaging, and the actual intent for changing things are totally disjoint :) | |
| 21:31:34 | mriedem | there are numerous flame wars on what the ptg is and isn't, or supposed to be or not, in the ML, so probably don't need to enumerate those here | |
| 21:31:52 | cdent | dansmith: yes, very true, but I _never_ thought the forum was a midcycle | |
| 21:32:13 | dansmith | right, all I'm saying is I hope that if we need to have discussions for in-progress things, we can do that as that was part of why the midcycle was important.. for rescuing things that were flailing before it was too late | |
| 21:32:33 | mriedem | dansmith: we can, if you can figure out what those things are going to be in the next 8 days :) | |
| 21:32:34 | edleafe | cdent: no, not a midcycle, but that would be the time to make sure you are on course for completing what you set out to do at the PTG | |
| 21:32:51 | edleafe | dansmith: sorta jinx | |
| 21:32:53 | cdent | if that’s an expectation people have, I think they will be disappointed | |
| 21:32:56 | dansmith | edleafe: exactly | |
| 21:33:02 | mriedem | dansmith: and minus a lot of the developers involved | |
| 21:33:05 | cdent | a) there won’t be time, b) there won’t be the people | |
| 21:33:09 | dansmith | mriedem: certainly for this one | |
| 21:33:13 | cdent | b jinx with mriedem | |
| 21:33:28 | cdent | we should treat it as feedback time | |
| 21:33:45 | mriedem | ^ is why i'd rather just sit in on ops sessions | |
| 21:33:49 | edleafe | many developers couldn't get companies to pay for the midcycles, since it wasn't an "official" event | |
| 21:34:10 | cdent | mriedem: maybe just make that so then? state: we’re not gonna do nova-oriented forum sessions, we’re going to go to ops ones | |
| 21:34:37 | mriedem | cdent: that will be the case if we don't have anything to propose | |
| 21:34:42 | mriedem | which might just happen naturally | |
| 21:34:53 | cdent | I suspect most people whould approve of that, especially if you spread the idea around | |
| 21:35:07 | mriedem | ultimately i just don't want to have to propose topics to fill time | |
| 21:35:27 | mriedem | s/i/us/we/everyone/ | |
| 21:35:54 | dansmith | the topics we proposed in boston were pretty well-attended by ops no? | |
| 21:36:56 | mriedem | yeah | |
| 21:37:18 | mriedem | some of the stuff we talked about in boston is just carrying over into queens | |
| 21:37:29 | mriedem | so that's where i'm thinking, this isn't news, this is stuff we're still working on | |
| 21:37:45 | openstackgerrit | Eric Berglund proposed openstack/nova master: Add PowerVM hypervisor configuration doc https://review.openstack.org/505665 | |
| 21:37:50 | dansmith | I think if we don't propose sessions to get specific feedback from ops, we'll be perceived as not caring to gather input, even if the actual goal is to attend other things | |