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#openstack-nova - 2017-09-05
19:58:59 prometheanfire if that merges today then the xenapi change can go in tomorrow via bot update
19:59:04 jaypipes efried: there is absolutely no "atomically create 10 volumes in Cinder" command.
19:59:38 mriedem there isn't?!
19:59:40 jaypipes efried: and these kinds of requests that the VNFM would be making are essentially that: requests for a set of related resources to be created as an atomic unit.
20:00:14 efried jaypipes Seems like there should be a way to specify multiple `resources=` keys in a single request, kind of thing.
20:00:18 mriedem how about i request 10 VMs with block_device_mapping_v2 in the request, of size 10, for each entry with different device names so nova creates the volumes!
20:00:29 jaypipes incidentally, this is why there's no atomicity guarantees that *any* orchestrator provides. not k8s, not heat, not IBM "smart" cloud orchestrator. not any of them.
20:00:47 mriedem does sco still exist?
20:00:56 jaypipes heh, no idea.
20:01:03 smcginnis mriedem: I hear they own the copyright to OpenStack.
20:01:04 efried only as a lawsuit troller
20:01:18 mriedem they do have a snapshot api for vmware instances
20:01:22 mriedem which is different from os-createImage
20:01:27 mriedem different, and superior
20:02:03 efried Yeah, less concerned about atomicity at the moment.
20:02:22 efried I mean, what if I want two different GPUs with different specialties?
20:03:04 efried / capabilities
20:03:11 mriedem ask cyborg
20:03:52 efried I don't know what that means
20:04:13 mriedem https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cyborg
20:04:33 mriedem https://review.openstack.org/#/c/448228/
20:04:59 mriedem jaypipes: is Roman Dobosz still around?
20:05:09 mriedem oh nvm
20:05:10 mriedem no
20:05:13 jaypipes mriedem: no
20:05:21 mriedem he was osic?
20:05:36 jaypipes no
20:05:47 jaypipes just got moved to a super-special-secret internal Intel project
20:06:04 efried Okay, so IIRC, it's legal in HTTP for a query param key to be repeated, and show up on the server side as a list of values.
20:06:28 jaypipes efried: show me an EC2, GCE, or Azure ability to request an instance that has multiple GPUs that are different.
20:06:37 jaypipes efried: yes.
20:06:44 efried What, because they can't do it, we shouldn't?
20:07:09 efried I mean, I'm at a clear disadvantage here, having no experience with any of those things.
20:07:13 jaypipes efried: no, because they can't do it is a pretty good indication that it's not something we should spend a shit-ton of time trying to do ;)
20:07:32 openstackgerrit Matt Riedemann proposed openstack/nova master: Make xen unit tests work with os-xenapi>=0.3.0 https://review.openstack.org/500968
20:07:36 efried What if it's not a shit-ton of time?
20:07:50 jaypipes efried: if it wasn't, you'd have done it already.
20:08:03 mriedem prometheanfire: https://review.openstack.org/500968
20:08:20 efried Mebbe I will.
20:08:26 efried But - okay - will put this down for now as "stated acceptable limitation".
20:09:09 jaypipes efried: all of these feature requests are basically for NFV use cases, anyway... which is hardware-defined software as I've said before. It's not cloud in as much as it's not abstraction. It's basically just automating the installation of \a very specific hardware environment.
20:10:47 efried jaypipes So can I have a VM on more than one network?
20:11:03 jaypipes efried: you can do that *now*...
20:11:48 efried jaypipes Right, but when everything's placement, how am I gonna say "give me one VF from physnet A and one VF from physnet B" ?
20:12:22 jaypipes efried: I don't know.
20:12:39 openstackgerrit Lee Yarwood proposed openstack/nova master: libvirt: Refactor encryptor attach and detach calls https://review.openstack.org/460243
20:12:43 jaypipes efried: I've been staring at a pastebin for 2 hours trying to think of how to represent that request.
20:12:58 efried I mean, per earlier conversation with sean-k-mooney, I'll create one neutron port on each physnet and stuff 'em both into the spawn request; but somebody's gonna have to get both of those guys into placement somehow.
20:13:13 jaypipes efried: without inventing YET ANOTHER orchestration DSL ala Kubernetes pod templates, Heat templates, TOSCA, and CloudFormation.
20:13:33 jaypipes efried: which... oh wait! are orchestration frameworks, not compute infrastructure services. :)
20:18:14 jaypipes efried_bbiab, edleafe, dansmith: I'm getting close to saying "fuck it, let's add another placement REST endpoint called POST /crazypants that accepts a JSON blob representing the innumerable requests for related resources that an orchestrator has"
20:18:53 mriedem mmm JsonFilter
20:18:55 mriedem v2
20:20:08 dansmith jaypipes: maybe we should finish several of the things we started with baseline gains before we freak out about not being able to request two different types of gpus
20:20:35 openstackgerrit Merged openstack/nova master: Add video type virtio for AArch64 https://review.openstack.org/493822
20:21:04 jaypipes dansmith: that sounds like an excellent idea.
20:21:11 openstackgerrit Merged openstack/nova master: Add uuid to migration table https://review.openstack.org/496933
20:23:24 mriedem dansmith: when is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/498510/ not a WPI?
20:23:26 mriedem *WIP
20:23:32 mriedem given patches are merging
20:23:54 dansmith mriedem: meant to remove it after the last round but ... didn't
20:24:25 openstackgerrit Dan Smith proposed openstack/nova-specs master: Add migration-allocations spec https://review.openstack.org/498510
20:24:27 dansmith ther go
20:29:01 openstackgerrit Jackie Truong proposed openstack/nova master: Add trusted_certs to instance_extra https://review.openstack.org/457711
20:29:24 openstackgerrit Chris Dent proposed openstack/nova master: WIP: [placement] POST /allocations to set allocations for >1 consumers https://review.openstack.org/500073
20:29:24 openstackgerrit Chris Dent proposed openstack/nova master: Move project_id and user_id to Allocation object https://review.openstack.org/500410
20:31:35 openstackgerrit Jackie Truong proposed openstack/nova master: Add trusted_certs to Instance object https://review.openstack.org/489408
20:36:13 melwitt cdent: heh, I think we all noticed the issues with project_id/user_id on the List object at the time but nobody was sure we would need them per allocation yet
20:36:50 cdent melwitt: tru
20:36:52 openstackgerrit melanie witt proposed openstack/nova-specs master: Convert consoles code to use objects framework https://review.openstack.org/500975
20:54:00 efried jaypipes Maybe different types of GPUs is crazypants, but somebody's gonna object to not being able to put a VM on more than one network.
20:54:27 jaypipes efried: again, you can already do that.
20:54:34 efried jaypipes With placement?
20:55:14 efried Maybe I misunderstood the previous conversation. But I thought that was exactly my point: you can do it today, but you won't be able to do it tomorrow.
20:55:58 jaypipes efried: no, not with placementy.
20:56:35 jaypipes efried: you can currently do it with the physnet tag hack in the pci_passthrough_whitelist thing.
20:56:52 jaypipes efried: and pre-creating Neutron ports with matching physnet tags
20:57:04 jaypipes efried: and passing those ports in to the Nova boot request
20:58:18 efried jaypipes Right. And I *thought* part of what we were trying to move toward is getting rid of the current PCI setup in favor of having device (incl. PCI) management revolving around placement.
20:58:22 jaypipes efried: what you're asking for here is combining the PCI device manager and PCIPassthroughFilter's behaviour of selecting a specific device based on arbitrary tags in the pci_device_request into the placement API.
20:58:58 efried jaypipes Well.... yes.
20:59:31 efried I'm asking what's the answer to that ^ gonna be when we've gotten rid of the PCI device manager and moved to Placement nirvana.
20:59:40 jaypipes efried: I'd like to be storing structurally-correct data in the placement DB, yes. that means nested resource providers, support for traits, and linking the (generic) device manager with support for both setting traits and inventory on a tree of provider records.
21:00:16 dansmith efried: the people that want to attach multiple physical networks to vms are the same people that ultimately keep most of us employed you know
21:00:25 jaypipes efried: what I *don't* see a way to do -- again, without crazypants complex DSLs -- is a way to reproduce the PciPassthroughFilter and NUMATopologyFilters as REST API requests to placement
21:00:50 dansmith efried: I don't think we'll deprecate or remove legacy structures from nova before we have a way to replicate critical behavior like that using something else.. not sure where you got that idea
21:01:37 jaypipes efried: it's the "how do I request all these related things from the placement REST API" part that has me stumped, not the "please store this structured data in the placement DB" part.
21:02:31 efried jaypipes Right, I can see how to get the structure/inventory data into placement.
21:02:46 jaypipes efried: yes. we're both A-OK on that front.
21:03:02 efried dansmith Sorry it came across that way; I misunderstood some stuff.
21:03:21 jaypipes efried: however, I still don't know a way to make a request of the placement API without essentially reproducing a domain-specific YAML/JSON language to deal with these complex topology requests.
21:04:55 efried dansmith When jaypipes was venting about nova not being a cloud orchestration thingy, I thought he was saying being able to request multiple networks was a cloud orchestration thingy behavior, and that nova shouldn't be in that business.
21:05:26 efried ...Which may indeed be what he was saying - just not suggesting that that actually *happen* :)
21:05:48 efried jaypipes Right, so go with me on this "multiple instances of the `resources=` key" thing for a sec.
21:06:25 dansmith efried: I think what he was saying was that expecting nova to do lots of steps for you (i.e. determine and reserve multiple resources) as part of a single boot request is really getting into orchestration
21:07:11 openstackgerrit Brianna Poulos proposed openstack/nova master: Add trusted_certificates to REST API https://review.openstack.org/486204
21:07:25 efried So I'm confused as to how VCPU+MEM_MB+DISK_GB isn't determining and reserving multiple resources.
21:07:40 dansmith efried: are you just being sarcastic and difficult now?
21:07:43 dansmith obviously that's not
21:08:33 efried No, dansmith, I'm actually this obtuse I'm afraid. Mostly from lack of experience (and a disproportionate lack of inhibition to speak up and ask questions).

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