| Posted | Nick | Remark | |
|---|---|---|---|
| #openstack-nova - 2017-02-10 | |||
| 19:30:05 | sdague | superdan: it does, but there are also lots of people that don't change the meanings of their flavors | |
| 19:30:06 | mordred | I think of flavors sort of like server model numbers | |
| 19:30:16 | mordred | when you order a DL380 from HPE, you get a DL380 | |
| 19:30:19 | mordred | it doesn't stop being a dl380 | |
| 19:30:19 | superdan | mordred: right, horizon says "you can edit flavors" but what it really means is "I will delete and recreate it for you" | |
| 19:30:31 | mordred | but next year, hpe will sell you a new thing called a dl380 | |
| 19:31:01 | sdague | so, it feels fine to include it, but say that the underlying definition may have changed, hence why we give you the definition of what it once was as well | |
| 19:31:09 | mordred | ++ | |
| 19:31:09 | leakypipes | mordred: even though you can order 10 DL380s and you'll get seven different motherboard manufacturers? ;) | |
| 19:31:25 | mordred | (to both of you) | |
| 19:31:30 | sdague | I also think mordred should open a bug with horizon and get them to remove that feature | |
| 19:31:43 | sdague | because, it's terrible as an easy thing to tell users to do | |
| 19:31:51 | mordred | sdague: can we just make flavors undeletable instead? | |
| 19:32:00 | superdan | we've had bugs reported because they changed the size of the flavor foo and the instances didn't change and that was surprising to them | |
| 19:32:10 | mordred | _wow_ | |
| 19:32:30 | sdague | superdan: right, given the way horizon exposes it, I'm not surprised | |
| 19:32:34 | superdan | yeah | |
| 19:32:38 | sdague | it's actually extra terrible UX | |
| 19:33:24 | superdan | leakypipes: before we go expose flavors in their current form, are we not supposed to at least consider reporting them in an RP-friendly way? like so that when we get rid of the current notion of a flavor we're not pinned to this format? | |
| 19:33:58 | superdan | leakypipes: like, does it matter if we just tell them how much DISK_GB they got and not necessarily report the split between swap and root and ephemeral? | |
| 19:34:02 | sdague | mordred: so even if we decided to make flavors undeletable (which I think has other fallout) it would have to be in a microversion, which means it would be a very long time before that was fundamental behavior | |
| 19:34:15 | superdan | we can't make them undeletable, IMHO | |
| 19:34:20 | sdague | mordred: honestly, it is better to get the horizon expectations reset | |
| 19:34:21 | mordred | yah. I see that ship as having sailed | |
| 19:34:23 | superdan | that's also punching ops in the face | |
| 19:34:39 | mordred | fwiw, I do not feel _strongly_ about name or id. I have a contract with shade users that I'll always be providing an id key in the flavor dict of a server, but I can easily just plop a none in there if it goes away from the server record | |
| 19:35:08 | superdan | mordred: in some sense, your flavor id becomes the uuid of the instance itself after boot | |
| 19:35:09 | mordred | so, in the realm of "mordred will scream and yell and rant for years" and "mordred will just sigh and have a beer" 0 this is WAY much more in the beer stage than the other | |
| 19:35:19 | superdan | mordred: if we later allow you to "buy an extra gig of ram".. that's what it'll be | |
| 19:35:22 | mordred | superdan: I can see that argument | |
| 19:35:57 | sdague | superdan: so, while it could some day | |
| 19:36:02 | sdague | it really doesn't today | |
| 19:36:14 | superdan | sdague: what doesn't? | |
| 19:36:35 | sdague | it feels like there is definitely a common case of "I want another like that one" | |
| 19:36:52 | superdan | sdague: that's even worse, because we know that id can be wrong | |
| 19:36:57 | superdan | if you teach people to ask for another just like it, | |
| 19:36:58 | sdague | and if people didn't rename all their flavors, or hot resize | |
| 19:37:02 | sdague | then it can work | |
| 19:37:03 | superdan | they're going to get a 0disk 64mb instance | |
| 19:37:22 | superdan | didn't johnthetubaguy tell me that RAX has renamed flavors before? | |
| 19:37:32 | sdague | it feels like the moment you hot added anything to the instance, the flavor id flips to uuid of the instance | |
| 19:37:46 | sdague | so we actively decouple there | |
| 19:38:08 | superdan | sdague: but if you change/delete a flavor, it's the same thing, and we can't really query for any instances that need changing if you alter the flavor | |
| 19:38:13 | superdan | that's hugely expensive | |
| 19:38:24 | sdague | superdan: sure, and that's why we document it as "possibly fiction" | |
| 19:38:26 | superdan | bigly expensive I mean | |
| 19:38:29 | mriedem | SO | |
| 19:38:34 | mriedem | besides placement and cells v2, | |
| 19:38:45 | mriedem | what's the #3 newsworthy feature delivered in ocata | |
| 19:38:46 | mriedem | ? | |
| 19:38:52 | superdan | sdague: well, I just don't see the point in documenting a thing as "likely wrong" when we could just not expose it, but whatever | |
| 19:39:01 | mriedem | https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/ocata/index.html | |
| 19:39:22 | superdan | mriedem: "leakypipes posted an inappropriate picture in IRC" is a pike event I guess | |
| 19:39:56 | cfriesen | superdan: I kind of feel like without either name or id, we don't really have a good starting point for "find me another flavor like this one" | |
| 19:40:01 | mriedem | there was a lot of random feature parity stuff that got in for hyper-v, xen and ironic virt drivers, but i can't really say that's one thing, unless i group them together | |
| 19:40:27 | superdan | cfriesen: you compare the resources not the id.. the id _is_ fiction | |
| 19:40:43 | mriedem | there is actually a lot in https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/ocata/index.html which didn't make the release | |
| 19:40:54 | superdan | cfriesen: to put it in a way that mriedem and sdague will love: how do you know if your cloud provider doesn't dickpunch people by changing flavors? | |
| 19:41:03 | superdan | cfriesen: you don't, so you can never rely on it, thus we should never expose it | |
| 19:41:15 | superdan | er, I meant s/mriedem/mordred/ above | |
| 19:41:18 | mriedem | yeah... | |
| 19:41:25 | cfriesen | superdan: you'd still have to check it it matches, but it gives you something to check rather than starting from scratch and searching all the flavors. | |
| 19:41:26 | mriedem | i love a good dickpunch | |
| 19:41:29 | mriedem | makes me feel alive | |
| 19:41:48 | superdan | cfriesen: but you don't know if your provider is good, so you always have to check the resources anyway | |
| 19:42:21 | cfriesen | superdan: you can start by checking whether that particular flavor still matches, rather than starting from scratch. | |
| 19:42:24 | superdan | mriedem: we re-released device tags? :D | |
| 19:42:33 | mriedem | superdan: that was for attach | |
| 19:42:38 | mriedem | attach vif, attach volume + tags | |
| 19:42:40 | mriedem | which didn't happen | |
| 19:42:53 | mriedem | the original spec covered boot and attach | |
| 19:42:55 | superdan | mriedem: well, I was just trying to be funny anyway, so thanks for ruining it | |
| 19:43:05 | mriedem | oh | |
| 19:43:05 | superdan | mriedem: no, I thought the re-release thing was for boot | |
| 19:43:15 | superdan | mriedem: because get me a network stepped on us | |
| 19:43:22 | mriedem | i'm talking about this one https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/ocata/approved/virt-device-role-tagging.html | |
| 19:43:31 | superdan | I'm talking about the bugfix | |
| 19:43:32 | superdan | anyway | |
| 19:43:33 | mriedem | yeah https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/ocata/approved/fix-tag-attribute-disappearing.html | |
| 19:43:36 | mriedem | har har | |
| 19:43:59 | mriedem | nova-status upgrade check was a thing | |
| 19:44:04 | superdan | yeah | |
| 19:44:05 | mriedem | came in late, seems fun | |
| 19:44:09 | mriedem | no bp | |
| 19:44:14 | superdan | and it's good press | |
| 19:44:54 | mriedem | yeah, because no one cares about being able to soft reboot ironic instances :) | |
| 19:45:21 | superdan | heh | |
| 19:51:20 | superdan | mriedem: so this is the cellsv1 regression I found whilst removing the flavor compat, which I pulled out into a separate fix: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/432352/1 | |
| 19:51:27 | superdan | i think we need that back in newton | |
| 19:53:35 | mriedem | file a bug? | |
| 19:54:53 | mriedem | leakypipes: we don't support scheduling decisions based on shared storage in ocata right? we never leveraged the aggregates stuff yet from whati remmeber | |
| 19:54:55 | mriedem | *remember | |
| 19:55:04 | leakypipes | mriedem: that is correct. | |
| 19:55:55 | leakypipes | mriedem: this merged: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/407309/. but it's only the beginning of what is needed. | |
| 19:56:20 | leakypipes | mriedem: just wrapping up that ocata scheduler-db-filters spec patch now... | |
| 19:56:32 | superdan | mriedem: I will if you're cool with that going back | |
| 19:56:57 | mriedem | superdan: yeah that's fine | |
| 19:57:04 | mriedem | i'm not the one you have to convince | |
| 19:57:08 | mriedem | lyarwood is the gate keeper | |
| 19:57:17 | mriedem | i'm only the key master | |