Virgil, I would take your point much more seriously if the guy had made

a sudden move, or appeared to be armed, or threatened the soldier in

some way. As it was, the guy was lying on the floor wounded, probably

unconscious.

The mosque where the insurgents were found had been attacked the day

before by another Marine unit. The insurgents inside were left for dead

until the next unit came along and found them (which incidentally is

also being questioned). From what I saw from the video, one of them was

already willing to talk so as to spare his life, and the others were

motionless.

Yes, in the heat of battle things do happen that sometimes should not.

But this was not the heat of battle. They had simply discovered some

wounded insurgents from a previous attack.

Regards

Dominic Burford

Software Engineer

Pegasus Software Limited

Orion House, Orion Way, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6PE

* Tel: +44 (1536) 495074

* Fax: +44 (1536) 495001

* dominic.burford@pegasus.co.uk

* http://www.pegasus.co.uk

"I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design:

One way is to make it so simple there are obviously no deficiencies, and

the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious

deficiencies." -- Tony Hoare, Turing Award Lecture 1980

-----Original Message-----

From: Virgil Bierschwale [mailto:vbiersch@msn.com]

Sent: 16 November 2004 13:29

To: 'ProFox Email List'

Subject: RE: [OT] US War Crimes in Fallujah?

I don't agree that it was right..

However I see the other side of the story.

IF there were a chance that this person had booby trapped himself, which

apparently happens AND if he was in fact armed which is what I heard AND

if

I had been shot the day before myself, well I'm sure there is bound to

be an

"Its us or them" mentality in a situation like that.

I do not have no experience so I can't say what I would do.

I'm all for leading by example but I'm also realistic enough to know

that

this only works when others play by the same rules.

-----Original Message-----

From: profox-bounces@leafe.com [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On

Behalf

Of Dominic Burford

Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 6:20 AM

To: ProFox Email List

Subject: RE: [OT] US War Crimes in Fallujah?

Virgil, the Marine in question shot an unarmed and wounded man by a

shooting

him at point blank range. Whatever your political persuasion, you must

surely admit that this was wrong. From the footage I saw on the news,

the

guy was lying on the floor, and was making no attempt to threaten the

Marine

in the slightest.

If being shot at during a conflict makes you that trigger happy and

nervous,

then perhaps the Armed Forces is not the correct career path for you.

Why

was such an easily intimidated and nervous soldier serving in Fallujah?

As to your other point, you lead by example. If we did what they did,

we'd

be the same as them. Right?

Regards

Dominic Burford

Software Engineer

Pegasus Software Limited

Orion House, Orion Way, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6PE

* Tel: +44 (1536) 495074

* Fax: +44 (1536) 495001

* dominic.burford@pegasus.co.uk

* http://www.pegasus.co.uk

"I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design:

One way is to make it so simple there are obviously no deficiencies, and

the

other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious

deficiencies." -- Tony Hoare, Turing Award Lecture 1980

-----Original Message-----

From: Virgil Bierschwale [mailto:vbiersch@msn.com]

Sent: 16 November 2004 13:09

To: 'ProFox Email List'

Subject: RE: [OT] US War Crimes in Fallujah?

Theres allways an other side to the story.

I don't know the details either, but the guy that shot him had just been

wounded the day before himself AND apparently the

Insurgents/TRASH/Varmints

have been booby trapping dead bodies, so if that's the scenario, even

though

it probably isnt right well I would have done the same thing.

Funny, when we do it, ya'll say we're not complying with the rules.

When they do it, there are no rules <grin>

-----Original Message-----

From: profox-bounces@leafe.com [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On

Behalf

Of Dominic Burford

Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 1:53 AM

To: ProFox Email List

Subject: RE: [OT] US War Crimes in Fallujah?

I'm not sure if the victim can be described as a POW, as he was not

actually

in the custody of the US Marines at the time. More accurately he can be

described as a wounded insurgent. That said though, the killing was

unnecessary and callous. The victim was unarmed and wounded, and was

shot

at point blank range. Apparently he has been removed from active duty,

and

there was mention of him perhaps even facing a murder charge.

BTW I've added the [OT] for you ;-)

Regards

Dominic Burford

Software Engineer

Pegasus Software Limited

Orion House, Orion Way, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6PE

* Tel: +44 (1536) 495074

* Fax: +44 (1536) 495001

* dominic.burford@pegasus.co.uk

* http://www.pegasus.co.uk

"I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design:

One way is to make it so simple there are obviously no deficiencies, and

the

other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious

deficiencies." -- Tony Hoare, Turing Award Lecture 1980

-----Original Message-----

From: Gary Sutherland Email

Sent: 16 November 2004 08:38

To: profox@leafe.com

Subject: US War Crimes in Fallujah?

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=583322

NBC apparently have footage of a US Marine murdering a POW.

Cheers

Gary

[excessive quoting removed by server]

OT-free version of this list:

http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech

** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of

the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This

statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid

to see the obvious.

______________________________________________________________________

This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.

For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email

______________________________________________________________________

Pegasus Software Limited is a member of the Systems Union Group plc

Registered Office: Systems Union House, 1 Lakeside Road, Aerospace Centre, Farnborough, Hampshire GU14 6XP Registered No: 1601542

This e-mail is from Pegasus Software Limited. The e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Please notify the sender by e-mail or telephone.

Pegasus Software Limited utilise an anti-virus system and therefore any files sent via e-mail will have been checked for known viruses. You are however advised to run your own virus check before opening any attachments received as Pegasus Software Limited will not in any event accept any liability whatsoever once an e-mail and/or any attachment is received.

______________________________________________________________________

This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.

For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email

______________________________________________________________________