As I type this I'm finally coming back from DevCon on a Saturday

afternoon/evening/night. I'd thought I'd take the time to write some

personal observations while I'm 30,000+ feet in the air...

Saturday night Lauren Simon and I went over the schedule. It was rather

embarassing -- there's at least as many (if not more) .Net sessions as

VFP sessions. Eh folks, this is a VFP conference?!? Here's some examples

of the class sessions:

Intro to ASP.NET for VFP developers

Intro to VB.NET for VFP developers

Intro to ADO.NET for VFP developers

VFP and .NET in Action

Intro to C#.NET for VFP developers

Intro to the .NET Framework for VFP developers

...etc...

MSFT believes that putting the fig leaf "for VFP developers" makes

anything palatable. IOW "(any MSFT commercial) for VFP developers" is okay.

Here's a radical thought: How about "Using the Class Browser and Object

Browser for VFP developers" ???? Not at this conference...

Sunday night:

Keynote: A bit long and a bit ragged, but a lot of meat for VFP

developers! I'm nearly shocked by not overpromoting .NET! Lauren and I

kept track of how many times Visual FoxPro was mentioned versus .NET in

the keynote. Technically, .NET won, but there's an explanation. Here's

the numbers:

Visual FoxPro -- 63

VFP -- 43

FoxPro -- 132

.NET -- 74

It is totally fair to combine the three VFP variants for a total number

of 238 mentions versus 74 mentions for .NET. In fact, I wouldn't have

had a problem with a bit more of a .NET mention. The point here is that

the .NET promotion at the keynote was in no way over the top. I'm

feeling better about this conference....

Jim Booth did his now famous rendition of "House Of the Rising Sun".

Sadly, it's his only rendition at the conference, as he had to leave the

conference early...

First session Monday, Ted Roche drops this bomb in his "Automating

Outlook with Visual FoxPro" session. (It's already been mentioned on

this forum but I repeat it here). I'm paraphrasing here...Profox is a

place where some of the smartest VFP developers get together to talk

about sheep". I just about fall out of my chair. Ted later indicated

that he saw me in the audience busting a gut...

Jeb Long is at this conference. For those that don't know, Jeb is the

pioneer of the whole class of xBase languages. Some personal background:

Jeb is somewhat shy but moreover, is very humble about his

accomplishments. His wife of 37 years died suddenly some time last year.

No illness, no hint of a problem, died of a heart attack. He felt very,

very lucky in what he describes as a happy and fun marriage. Needless to

say, it's taken him some time to adjust. I get the sense that he had

such a good relationship with his wife that he's lost some of his

ability to forge friendships on his own (IMO).

Anyway, I've known him for about a year. He's come to LA Fox a number of

times and has dome 3 night hikes with me and our hiking group recently.

I've been "pumping" him to other people whenever I had an opportunity to

do so -- talking about his marvelous accomplishments -- whereupon Jeb

immediately disavows it as no big deal. (At this point I'd make some

joke about his proudest career accomplishment is as an LAFox attendee.

But I'm setting him up for what's to follow. I've been setting this hook

for months). At the conference, Jeb is comfortable with me and hangs

around me whenever he can. Eventually, people ask who he is, whereupon I

go through the same spiel (without the LA Fox jab). Before his session,

he's probably heard me do this about 15 times. He's slightly embarassed

each time but is getting a bit used to it, though he'd probably wish I'd

not hammer the same point so often....(I'm setting the hook even deeper,

folks)

His session Monday evening with Ken Levy is about the history of xBase.

Jeb gets up there for about a half hour. Throughout the rest of the

conference, people are coming up to him in near reverential tones about

his accomplishments. Toward the end of the conference, his body language

tells me that he's slowly adjusting to this adulation and is tentatively

reaching out to others as well. Mission accomplished. If Jeb comes to

another FoxPro DevCon, be sure to say hi and introduce yourself.

The jam session drummer from New York is awesome... The jam session

doesn't get as good as Miami, but get's pretty good in spots.

I meet Cindy Winegarden, Matt Jarvis and Chuck Urwiler for the first

time. I've known whom Chuck is for years but never introduced myself...

The next night, Brian Jones does his CFast (formerly JFast) demo. He

indicates that this or the JFast app (My guess it's the JFast app as the

cFast app at this point is a prototype) was used in conjunction with

Afghanistan (no surprise) and that Donald Rumsfeld has seen the output

of this app. At the end, Brian Jones says "Over our dead bodies" in

relation to about the possibility of VFP going away. I don't remember

the specific question but I do remember the tenor of the question. His

response would lead me to believe that VFP might be around longer

whether MSFT likes it or not...

Later that night is the toast to Tom Rettig. Unfortunately, we've had to

add Tom Piper to the toast. About a dozen or so people speak. I've not

been to all the toasts but for me, it's by far the most touching of the

tributes. I get in to the center of the ring to add my story. I only

remember stumbling and bumbling my way through the speech. Somehow,

people get the gist of it and even thank me later for it. I'm not

bragging here folks, I'm surprised. Here's the distilled version of what

I was trying to say...

I knew both Tom Rettig and Tom Piper. Both were very friendly

individuals and were always happy to see you at whatever VFP conference

you were at. Both Toms had their demons -- but that's not why we're

gathered here. We're gathered here not because of their flaws, but to

cherish their strengths. The Toms went out of their way to say hello to

you -- to take the time to get to know you as an individual. I would

feel like Norm on the TV show "Cheers", walking down the steps toward

the bar and everyone at the bar yells "Norm!". They were just happy to

see you.

Both of these deaths are tragic. However, we can learn from these

tragedies by instilling their spirits into your lives. I ask that you,

the audience, introduce yourself to some of the DevCon newbies and get

to know them as people. Go out of your way to make them feel comfortable

as the Toms did you.

Here's to the Toms.

I remember Roxanne Siebert came up after me and it broke up. I went to

the restroom and cried. Afterwards, I'm off-kilter for the rest of the

evening.

The Jims/Daryls on this ProFox list are nice guys. I know 'em from LAFox

but now others are noting it as well. Ed Leafe is still the best

socializer at DevCon and that's saying something. He's probably the best

embodiment of the spirit of both Toms.

Sometime in Wednesday, Ted Roche, Marcia Akins, I and others (Tamar

Granor?) are in an elevator going to our rooms. I mention to Ted that

the sheep mention reached the ProFox list. Ted acknowledges it, the two

women ask "Whaddya mean sheep?" Ted and I say that you don't want to

know. Elevator stops. Ted and Marcia get out. Marcia asks "What's this

sheep thing?" as the door closes. Another gut buster. I know Ted's gotta

give up the secret to Marcia...

I can go on and on but I gotta stop somewhere.

It's near unaminous that the closing session was a real downer. I'll let

others chime in on that as I didn't think it was all that bad.

That's all for now...

Bill Anderson

> Sometime in Wednesday, Ted Roche, Marcia Akins, I and others (Tamar

> Granor?) are in an elevator going to our rooms. I mention to Ted that

> the sheep mention reached the ProFox list. Ted acknowledges

> it, the two

> women ask "Whaddya mean sheep?" Ted and I say that you don't want to

> know. Elevator stops. Ted and Marcia get out. Marcia asks

> "What's this

> sheep thing?" as the door closes. Another gut buster. I know

> Ted's gotta

> give up the secret to Marcia...

ProFox: where men are real men, women are real women, and sheep are real

scared.

I wonder if MS VB conferences include sessions such as:

Intro to VFP for VB developers

Walking with VB -> running with VFP

VFP tricks for VB developers

TCO comparison .NET vs VFP

Speed comparison: VB and VFP

Upgrading your VB apps to VFP

What VB developers can learn from the VFP community

Bill

> Intro to ASP.NET for VFP developers

> Intro to VB.NET for VFP developers

> Intro to ADO.NET for VFP developers

> VFP and .NET in Action

> Intro to C#.NET for VFP developers

> Intro to the .NET Framework for VFP developers

> ...etc...

>

Hi Bill,

I'm so glad I decided to save my money this year.

Jacci Adams

Lindsay-Adams Consulting

jacci@neo.rr.com

GCPCUG: Consulting SIG - Facilitator

GCPCUG: FoxPro SIG - Facilitator

=A0

=A0

-----Original Message-----

From: profox@leafe.com [mailto:profox@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Bill

Anderson

Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 8:21 PM

To: Multiple recipients of ProFox

Subject: Personal DevCon observations (note: very long)

As I type this I'm finally coming back from DevCon on a Saturday=20

afternoon/evening/night. I'd thought I'd take the time to write some=20

personal observations while I'm 30,000+ feet in the air...

Saturday night Lauren Simon and I went over the schedule. It was rather=20

embarassing -- there's at least as many (if not more) .Net sessions as=20

VFP sessions. Eh folks, this is a VFP conference?!? Here's some examples

of the class sessions:

Intro to ASP.NET for VFP developers

Intro to VB.NET for VFP developers

Intro to ADO.NET for VFP developers

VFP and .NET in Action

Intro to C#.NET for VFP developers

Intro to the .NET Framework for VFP developers

...etc...

MSFT believes that putting the fig leaf "for VFP developers" makes=20

anything palatable. IOW "(any MSFT commercial) for VFP developers" is

okay.

Here's a radical thought: How about "Using the Class Browser and Object=20

Browser for VFP developers" ???? Not at this conference...

Sunday night:

Keynote: A bit long and a bit ragged, but a lot of meat for VFP=20

developers! I'm nearly shocked by not overpromoting .NET! Lauren and I=20

kept track of how many times Visual FoxPro was mentioned versus .NET in=20

the keynote. Technically, .NET won, but there's an explanation. Here's=20

the numbers:

Visual FoxPro -- 63

VFP -- 43

FoxPro -- 132

.NET -- 74

It is totally fair to combine the three VFP variants for a total number=20

of 238 mentions versus 74 mentions for .NET. In fact, I wouldn't have=20

had a problem with a bit more of a .NET mention. The point here is that=20

the .NET promotion at the keynote was in no way over the top. I'm=20

feeling better about this conference....

Jim Booth did his now famous rendition of "House Of the Rising Sun".=20

Sadly, it's his only rendition at the conference, as he had to leave the

conference early...

First session Monday, Ted Roche drops this bomb in his "Automating=20

Outlook with Visual FoxPro" session. (It's already been mentioned on=20

this forum but I repeat it here). I'm paraphrasing here...Profox is a=20

place where some of the smartest VFP developers get together to talk=20

about sheep". I just about fall out of my chair. Ted later indicated=20

that he saw me in the audience busting a gut...

Jeb Long is at this conference. For those that don't know, Jeb is the=20

pioneer of the whole class of xBase languages. Some personal background:

Jeb is somewhat shy but moreover, is very humble about his=20

accomplishments. His wife of 37 years died suddenly some time last year.

No illness, no hint of a problem, died of a heart attack. He felt very,=20

very lucky in what he describes as a happy and fun marriage. Needless to

say, it's taken him some time to adjust. I get the sense that he had=20

such a good relationship with his wife that he's lost some of his=20

ability to forge friendships on his own (IMO).

Anyway, I've known him for about a year. He's come to LA Fox a number of

times and has dome 3 night hikes with me and our hiking group recently.=20

I've been "pumping" him to other people whenever I had an opportunity to

do so -- talking about his marvelous accomplishments -- whereupon Jeb=20

immediately disavows it as no big deal. (At this point I'd make some=20

joke about his proudest career accomplishment is as an LAFox attendee.=20

But I'm setting him up for what's to follow. I've been setting this hook

for months). At the conference, Jeb is comfortable with me and hangs=20

around me whenever he can. Eventually, people ask who he is, whereupon I

go through the same spiel (without the LA Fox jab). Before his session,=20

he's probably heard me do this about 15 times. He's slightly embarassed=20

each time but is getting a bit used to it, though he'd probably wish I'd

not hammer the same point so often....(I'm setting the hook even deeper,

folks)

His session Monday evening with Ken Levy is about the history of xBase.=20

Jeb gets up there for about a half hour. Throughout the rest of the=20

conference, people are coming up to him in near reverential tones about=20

his accomplishments. Toward the end of the conference, his body language

tells me that he's slowly adjusting to this adulation and is tentatively

reaching out to others as well. Mission accomplished. If Jeb comes to=20

another FoxPro DevCon, be sure to say hi and introduce yourself.

The jam session drummer from New York is awesome... The jam session=20

doesn't get as good as Miami, but get's pretty good in spots.

I meet Cindy Winegarden, Matt Jarvis and Chuck Urwiler for the first=20

time. I've known whom Chuck is for years but never introduced myself...

The next night, Brian Jones does his CFast (formerly JFast) demo. He=20

indicates that this or the JFast app (My guess it's the JFast app as the

cFast app at this point is a prototype) was used in conjunction with=20

Afghanistan (no surprise) and that Donald Rumsfeld has seen the output=20

of this app. At the end, Brian Jones says "Over our dead bodies" in=20

relation to about the possibility of VFP going away. I don't remember=20

the specific question but I do remember the tenor of the question. His=20

response would lead me to believe that VFP might be around longer=20

whether MSFT likes it or not...

Later that night is the toast to Tom Rettig. Unfortunately, we've had to

add Tom Piper to the toast. About a dozen or so people speak. I've not=20

been to all the toasts but for me, it's by far the most touching of the=20

tributes. I get in to the center of the ring to add my story. I only=20

remember stumbling and bumbling my way through the speech. Somehow,=20

people get the gist of it and even thank me later for it. I'm not=20

bragging here folks, I'm surprised. Here's the distilled version of what

I was trying to say...

I knew both Tom Rettig and Tom Piper. Both were very friendly=20

individuals and were always happy to see you at whatever VFP conference=20

you were at. Both Toms had their demons -- but that's not why we're=20

gathered here. We're gathered here not because of their flaws, but to=20

cherish their strengths. The Toms went out of their way to say hello to=20

you -- to take the time to get to know you as an individual. I would=20

feel like Norm on the TV show "Cheers", walking down the steps toward=20

the bar and everyone at the bar yells "Norm!". They were just happy to=20

see you.

Both of these deaths are tragic. However, we can learn from these=20

tragedies by instilling their spirits into your lives. I ask that you,=20

the audience, introduce yourself to some of the DevCon newbies and get=20

to know them as people. Go out of your way to make them feel comfortable

as the Toms did you.

Here's to the Toms.

I remember Roxanne Siebert came up after me and it broke up. I went to=20

the restroom and cried. Afterwards, I'm off-kilter for the rest of the=20

evening.

The Jims/Daryls on this ProFox list are nice guys. I know 'em from LAFox

but now others are noting it as well. Ed Leafe is still the best=20

socializer at DevCon and that's saying something. He's probably the best

embodiment of the spirit of both Toms.

Sometime in Wednesday, Ted Roche, Marcia Akins, I and others (Tamar=20

Granor?) are in an elevator going to our rooms. I mention to Ted that=20

the sheep mention reached the ProFox list. Ted acknowledges it, the two=20

women ask "Whaddya mean sheep?" Ted and I say that you don't want to=20

know. Elevator stops. Ted and Marcia get out. Marcia asks "What's this=20

sheep thing?" as the door closes. Another gut buster. I know Ted's gotta

give up the secret to Marcia...

I can go on and on but I gotta stop somewhere.

It's near unaminous that the closing session was a real downer. I'll let

others chime in on that as I didn't think it was all that bad.

That's all for now...

Bill Anderson

These sound like great VB conference sessions to me <bg>.

Jacci Adams

Lindsay-Adams Consulting

jacci@neo.rr.com

GCPCUG: Consulting SIG - Facilitator

GCPCUG: FoxPro SIG - Facilitator

=A0

=A0

-----Original Message-----

From: profox@leafe.com [mailto:profox@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Bill

Arnold

Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 10:02 AM

To: Multiple recipients of ProFox

Subject: RE: Personal DevCon observations (note: very long)

I wonder if MS VB conferences include sessions such as:=20

Intro to VFP for VB developers

Walking with VB -> running with VFP

VFP tricks for VB developers

TCO comparison .NET vs VFP

Speed comparison: VB and VFP

Upgrading your VB apps to VFP

What VB developers can learn from the VFP community

Bill

=20

> Intro to ASP.NET for VFP developers

> Intro to VB.NET for VFP developers

> Intro to ADO.NET for VFP developers

> VFP and .NET in Action

> Intro to C#.NET for VFP developers

> Intro to the .NET Framework for VFP developers

> ...etc...

> =20

Well, then you missed a lot..... Maybe you're a lot better versed in what=

is

going on than I am, but I was able to fill my time with the following

sessions:

Discover the Power and Reach of Visual FoxPro - Keynote Presentation

Introduction to XML Technologies

Data Strategies in Visual FoxPro: Introduction

Data Strategies in Visual FoxPro: Advanced

Advanced COM in Visual FoxPro

Testing and Deploying Visual FoxPro Applications

Automating Outlook with Visual FoxPro

Introduction to N-tier System Design for Web Applications

Using XML with Visual FoxPro and SQL Server

Optimize SQL Server Queries

CFAST and Visual FoxPro

XML Web Services in Visual FoxPro

Integrating Distributed Applications with Business Objects

Error Handling in Visual FoxPro

SQL Server Administration

ADVISOR ANSWERS: Technical Q&A - Closing

I don't see a single .NET class in there..... Like it or not, .NET is an

ever emerging MS technology such that if things go according to plan, we'=

re

all probably going to have to at least be familiar if not proficient with

it. To offer classes in this newer technology, especially for disconnecte=

d

VFP folks who are interested in keeping current, only makes good sense.

At the moment I couldn't care less about .NET, but if my work demanded it

and I came from the VFP world, this would have been a good way to look at

.NET from a VFP viewpoint.

Matthew S. Jarvis

Eugene, Oregon USA

m@ttjarvis.com

-----Original Message-----

From: profox@leafe.com [mailto:profox@leafe.com]On Behalf Of Jacci

Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 2:00 PM

To: Multiple recipients of ProFox

Subject: RE: Personal DevCon observations (note: very long)

Hi Bill,

I'm so glad I decided to save my money this year.

Jacci Adams

Lindsay-Adams Consulting

jacci@neo.rr.com

GCPCUG: Consulting SIG - Facilitator

GCPCUG: FoxPro SIG - Facilitator

=A0

=A0

-----Original Message-----

From: profox@leafe.com [mailto:profox@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Bill

Anderson

Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 8:21 PM

To: Multiple recipients of ProFox

Subject: Personal DevCon observations (note: very long)

As I type this I'm finally coming back from DevCon on a Saturday

afternoon/evening/night. I'd thought I'd take the time to write some

personal observations while I'm 30,000+ feet in the air...

Saturday night Lauren Simon and I went over the schedule. It was rather

embarassing -- there's at least as many (if not more) .Net sessions as

VFP sessions. Eh folks, this is a VFP conference?!? Here's some examples

of the class sessions:

Intro to ASP.NET for VFP developers

Intro to VB.NET for VFP developers

Intro to ADO.NET for VFP developers

VFP and .NET in Action

Intro to C#.NET for VFP developers

Intro to the .NET Framework for VFP developers

...etc...

MSFT believes that putting the fig leaf "for VFP developers" makes

anything palatable. IOW "(any MSFT commercial) for VFP developers" is

okay.

Here's a radical thought: How about "Using the Class Browser and Object

Browser for VFP developers" ???? Not at this conference...

Sunday night:

Keynote: A bit long and a bit ragged, but a lot of meat for VFP

developers! I'm nearly shocked by not overpromoting .NET! Lauren and I

kept track of how many times Visual FoxPro was mentioned versus .NET in

the keynote. Technically, .NET won, but there's an explanation. Here's

the numbers:

Visual FoxPro -- 63

VFP -- 43

FoxPro -- 132

.NET -- 74

It is totally fair to combine the three VFP variants for a total number

of 238 mentions versus 74 mentions for .NET. In fact, I wouldn't have

had a problem with a bit more of a .NET mention. The point here is that

the .NET promotion at the keynote was in no way over the top. I'm

feeling better about this conference....

Jim Booth did his now famous rendition of "House Of the Rising Sun".

Sadly, it's his only rendition at the conference, as he had to leave the

conference early...

First session Monday, Ted Roche drops this bomb in his "Automating

Outlook with Visual FoxPro" session. (It's already been mentioned on

this forum but I repeat it here). I'm paraphrasing here...Profox is a

place where some of the smartest VFP developers get together to talk

about sheep". I just about fall out of my chair. Ted later indicated

that he saw me in the audience busting a gut...

Jeb Long is at this conference. For those that don't know, Jeb is the

pioneer of the whole class of xBase languages. Some personal background:

Jeb is somewhat shy but moreover, is very humble about his

accomplishments. His wife of 37 years died suddenly some time last year.

No illness, no hint of a problem, died of a heart attack. He felt very,

very lucky in what he describes as a happy and fun marriage. Needless to

say, it's taken him some time to adjust. I get the sense that he had

such a good relationship with his wife that he's lost some of his

ability to forge friendships on his own (IMO).

Anyway, I've known him for about a year. He's come to LA Fox a number of

times and has dome 3 night hikes with me and our hiking group recently.

I've been "pumping" him to other people whenever I had an opportunity to

do so -- talking about his marvelous accomplishments -- whereupon Jeb

immediately disavows it as no big deal. (At this point I'd make some

joke about his proudest career accomplishment is as an LAFox attendee.

But I'm setting him up for what's to follow. I've been setting this hook

for months). At the conference, Jeb is comfortable with me and hangs

around me whenever he can. Eventually, people ask who he is, whereupon I

go through the same spiel (without the LA Fox jab). Before his session,

he's probably heard me do this about 15 times. He's slightly embarassed

each time but is getting a bit used to it, though he'd probably wish I'd

not hammer the same point so often....(I'm setting the hook even deeper,

folks)

His session Monday evening with Ken Levy is about the history of xBase.

Jeb gets up there for about a half hour. Throughout the rest of the

conference, people are coming up to him in near reverential tones about

his accomplishments. Toward the end of the conference, his body language

tells me that he's slowly adjusting to this adulation and is tentatively

reaching out to others as well. Mission accomplished. If Jeb comes to

another FoxPro DevCon, be sure to say hi and introduce yourself.

The jam session drummer from New York is awesome... The jam session

doesn't get as good as Miami, but get's pretty good in spots.

I meet Cindy Winegarden, Matt Jarvis and Chuck Urwiler for the first

time. I've known whom Chuck is for years but never introduced myself...

The next night, Brian Jones does his CFast (formerly JFast) demo. He

indicates that this or the JFast app (My guess it's the JFast app as the

cFast app at this point is a prototype) was used in conjunction with

Afghanistan (no surprise) and that Donald Rumsfeld has seen the output

of this app. At the end, Brian Jones says "Over our dead bodies" in

relation to about the possibility of VFP going away. I don't remember

the specific question but I do remember the tenor of the question. His

response would lead me to believe that VFP might be around longer

whether MSFT likes it or not...

Later that night is the toast to Tom Rettig. Unfortunately, we've had to

add Tom Piper to the toast. About a dozen or so people speak. I've not

been to all the toasts but for me, it's by far the most touching of the

tributes. I get in to the center of the ring to add my story. I only

remember stumbling and bumbling my way through the speech. Somehow,

people get the gist of it and even thank me later for it. I'm not

bragging here folks, I'm surprised. Here's the distilled version of what

I was trying to say...

I knew both Tom Rettig and Tom Piper. Both were very friendly

individuals and were always happy to see you at whatever VFP conference

you were at. Both Toms had their demons -- but that's not why we're

gathered here. We're gathered here not because of their flaws, but to

cherish their strengths. The Toms went out of their way to say hello to

you -- to take the time to get to know you as an individual. I would

feel like Norm on the TV show "Cheers", walking down the steps toward

the bar and everyone at the bar yells "Norm!". They were just happy to

see you.

Both of these deaths are tragic. However, we can learn from these

tragedies by instilling their spirits into your lives. I ask that you,

the audience, introduce yourself to some of the DevCon newbies and get

to know them as people. Go out of your way to make them feel comfortable

as the Toms did you.

Here's to the Toms.

I remember Roxanne Siebert came up after me and it broke up. I went to

the restroom and cried. Afterwards, I'm off-kilter for the rest of the

evening.

The Jims/Daryls on this ProFox list are nice guys. I know 'em from LAFox

but now others are noting it as well. Ed Leafe is still the best

socializer at DevCon and that's saying something. He's probably the best

embodiment of the spirit of both Toms.

Sometime in Wednesday, Ted Roche, Marcia Akins, I and others (Tamar

Granor?) are in an elevator going to our rooms. I mention to Ted that

the sheep mention reached the ProFox list. Ted acknowledges it, the two

women ask "Whaddya mean sheep?" Ted and I say that you don't want to

know. Elevator stops. Ted and Marcia get out. Marcia asks "What's this

sheep thing?" as the door closes. Another gut buster. I know Ted's gotta

give up the secret to Marcia...

I can go on and on but I gotta stop somewhere.

It's near unaminous that the closing session was a real downer. I'll let

others chime in on that as I didn't think it was all that bad.

That's all for now...

Bill Anderson

You were missed, Jacci. I managed to go to nothing but Fox sessions, and

learned a lot in them. The new features in VFP8 are exciting, especially the

data stuff.

It was good to catch up with old friends and make some new acquaintances.

Jeb Long and I spent an hour or two comparing notes on who we knew and where

mutual friends had ended up. Nice guy.

And the facilities were very good. The beach was fun (great surf from the

tropical storms). Service at the hotel was excellent, there when you needed

them and invisible otherwise.

-----Original Message-----

From: listmom@leafe.com [mailto:listmom@leafe.com]On Behalf Of Jacci

Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 17:00

To: Multiple recipients of ProFox

Subject: RE: Personal DevCon observations (note: very long)

Hi Bill,

I'm so glad I decided to save my money this year.

Jacci Adams

Lindsay-Adams Consulting

jacci@neo.rr.com

GCPCUG: Consulting SIG - Facilitator

GCPCUG: FoxPro SIG - Facilitator

%A0

%A0

-----Original Message-----

From: profox@leafe.com [mailto:profox@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Bill

Anderson

Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 8:21 PM

To: Multiple recipients of ProFox

Subject: Personal DevCon observations (note: very long)

As I type this I'm finally coming back from DevCon on a Saturday

afternoon/evening/night. I'd thought I'd take the time to write some

personal observations while I'm 30,000+ feet in the air...

Saturday night Lauren Simon and I went over the schedule. It was rather

embarassing -- there's at least as many (if not more) .Net sessions as

VFP sessions. Eh folks, this is a VFP conference?!? Here's some examples

of the class sessions:

Intro to ASP.NET for VFP developers

Intro to VB.NET for VFP developers

Intro to ADO.NET for VFP developers

VFP and .NET in Action

Intro to C#.NET for VFP developers

Intro to the .NET Framework for VFP developers

...etc...

MSFT believes that putting the fig leaf "for VFP developers" makes

anything palatable. IOW "(any MSFT commercial) for VFP developers" is

okay.

Here's a radical thought: How about "Using the Class Browser and Object

Browser for VFP developers" ???? Not at this conference...

Sunday night:

Keynote: A bit long and a bit ragged, but a lot of meat for VFP

developers! I'm nearly shocked by not overpromoting .NET! Lauren and I

kept track of how many times Visual FoxPro was mentioned versus .NET in

the keynote. Technically, .NET won, but there's an explanation. Here's

the numbers:

Visual FoxPro -- 63

VFP -- 43

FoxPro -- 132

.NET -- 74

It is totally fair to combine the three VFP variants for a total number

of 238 mentions versus 74 mentions for .NET. In fact, I wouldn't have

had a problem with a bit more of a .NET mention. The point here is that

the .NET promotion at the keynote was in no way over the top. I'm

feeling better about this conference....

Jim Booth did his now famous rendition of "House Of the Rising Sun".

Sadly, it's his only rendition at the conference, as he had to leave the

conference early...

First session Monday, Ted Roche drops this bomb in his "Automating

Outlook with Visual FoxPro" session. (It's already been mentioned on

this forum but I repeat it here). I'm paraphrasing here...Profox is a

place where some of the smartest VFP developers get together to talk

about sheep". I just about fall out of my chair. Ted later indicated

that he saw me in the audience busting a gut...

Jeb Long is at this conference. For those that don't know, Jeb is the

pioneer of the whole class of xBase languages. Some personal background:

Jeb is somewhat shy but moreover, is very humble about his

accomplishments. His wife of 37 years died suddenly some time last year.

No illness, no hint of a problem, died of a heart attack. He felt very,

very lucky in what he describes as a happy and fun marriage. Needless to

say, it's taken him some time to adjust. I get the sense that he had

such a good relationship with his wife that he's lost some of his

ability to forge friendships on his own (IMO).

Anyway, I've known him for about a year. He's come to LA Fox a number of

times and has dome 3 night hikes with me and our hiking group recently.

I've been "pumping" him to other people whenever I had an opportunity to

do so -- talking about his marvelous accomplishments -- whereupon Jeb

immediately disavows it as no big deal. (At this point I'd make some

joke about his proudest career accomplishment is as an LAFox attendee.

But I'm setting him up for what's to follow. I've been setting this hook

for months). At the conference, Jeb is comfortable with me and hangs

around me whenever he can. Eventually, people ask who he is, whereupon I

go through the same spiel (without the LA Fox jab). Before his session,

he's probably heard me do this about 15 times. He's slightly embarassed

each time but is getting a bit used to it, though he'd probably wish I'd

not hammer the same point so often....(I'm setting the hook even deeper,

folks)

His session Monday evening with Ken Levy is about the history of xBase.

Jeb gets up there for about a half hour. Throughout the rest of the

conference, people are coming up to him in near reverential tones about

his accomplishments. Toward the end of the conference, his body language

tells me that he's slowly adjusting to this adulation and is tentatively

reaching out to others as well. Mission accomplished. If Jeb comes to

another FoxPro DevCon, be sure to say hi and introduce yourself.

The jam session drummer from New York is awesome... The jam session

doesn't get as good as Miami, but get's pretty good in spots.

I meet Cindy Winegarden, Matt Jarvis and Chuck Urwiler for the first

time. I've known whom Chuck is for years but never introduced myself...

The next night, Brian Jones does his CFast (formerly JFast) demo. He

indicates that this or the JFast app (My guess it's the JFast app as the

cFast app at this point is a prototype) was used in conjunction with

Afghanistan (no surprise) and that Donald Rumsfeld has seen the output

of this app. At the end, Brian Jones says "Over our dead bodies" in

relation to about the possibility of VFP going away. I don't remember

the specific question but I do remember the tenor of the question. His

response would lead me to believe that VFP might be around longer

whether MSFT likes it or not...

Later that night is the toast to Tom Rettig. Unfortunately, we've had to

add Tom Piper to the toast. About a dozen or so people speak. I've not

been to all the toasts but for me, it's by far the most touching of the

tributes. I get in to the center of the ring to add my story. I only

remember stumbling and bumbling my way through the speech. Somehow,

people get the gist of it and even thank me later for it. I'm not

bragging here folks, I'm surprised. Here's the distilled version of what

I was trying to say...

I knew both Tom Rettig and Tom Piper. Both were very friendly

individuals and were always happy to see you at whatever VFP conference

you were at. Both Toms had their demons -- but that's not why we're

gathered here. We're gathered here not because of their flaws, but to

cherish their strengths. The Toms went out of their way to say hello to

you -- to take the time to get to know you as an individual. I would

feel like Norm on the TV show "Cheers", walking down the steps toward

the bar and everyone at the bar yells "Norm!". They were just happy to

see you.

Both of these deaths are tragic. However, we can learn from these

tragedies by instilling their spirits into your lives. I ask that you,

the audience, introduce yourself to some of the DevCon newbies and get

to know them as people. Go out of your way to make them feel comfortable

as the Toms did you.

Here's to the Toms.

I remember Roxanne Siebert came up after me and it broke up. I went to

the restroom and cried. Afterwards, I'm off-kilter for the rest of the

evening.

The Jims/Daryls on this ProFox list are nice guys. I know 'em from LAFox

but now others are noting it as well. Ed Leafe is still the best

socializer at DevCon and that's saying something. He's probably the best

embodiment of the spirit of both Toms.

Sometime in Wednesday, Ted Roche, Marcia Akins, I and others (Tamar

Granor?) are in an elevator going to our rooms. I mention to Ted that

the sheep mention reached the ProFox list. Ted acknowledges it, the two

women ask "Whaddya mean sheep?" Ted and I say that you don't want to

know. Elevator stops. Ted and Marcia get out. Marcia asks "What's this

sheep thing?" as the door closes. Another gut buster. I know Ted's gotta

give up the secret to Marcia...

I can go on and on but I gotta stop somewhere.

It's near unaminous that the closing session was a real downer. I'll let

others chime in on that as I didn't think it was all that bad.

That's all for now...

Bill Anderson

Hmm. Not such a bad idea!

Who do we contact?

I'd be glad to give the "Intro to VFP for VB developers" seminar.

Chet

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jacci" <jacci@neo.rr.com>

To: "Multiple recipients of ProFox" <profox@leafe.com>

Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 2:00 PM

Subject: RE: Personal DevCon observations (note: very long)

These sound like great VB conference sessions to me <bg>.

Jacci Adams

Lindsay-Adams Consulting

jacci@neo.rr.com

GCPCUG: Consulting SIG - Facilitator

GCPCUG: FoxPro SIG - Facilitator

-----Original Message-----

From: profox@leafe.com [mailto:profox@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Bill

Arnold

Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 10:02 AM

To: Multiple recipients of ProFox

Subject: RE: Personal DevCon observations (note: very long)

I wonder if MS VB conferences include sessions such as:

Intro to VFP for VB developers

Walking with VB -> running with VFP

VFP tricks for VB developers

TCO comparison .NET vs VFP

Speed comparison: VB and VFP

Upgrading your VB apps to VFP

What VB developers can learn from the VFP community

Bill

> Intro to ASP.NET for VFP developers

> Intro to VB.NET for VFP developers

> Intro to ADO.NET for VFP developers

> VFP and .NET in Action

> Intro to C#.NET for VFP developers

> Intro to the .NET Framework for VFP developers

> ...etc...

>

As a lurker who comes to the surface from time to time, I appreciate all the

notes y'all have shared with us, pro and con, concerning the current state

of the Fox! Keep those cards and letters coming.

Bob

Holmes & Turner

>> Well, then you missed a lot..... Maybe you're a lot better versed in

what is going on than I am, but I was able to fill my time with the

following<<

Perhaps I missed some stuff. Economics played a part in my conference

attendance this year. I'm going to GLGDW where quite a few of the

sessions cover similar material.

No matter where I go monthly user group meeting, small, medium, or large

conferences I always learn something new.

Jacci Adams

Lindsay-Adams Consulting

jacci@neo.rr.com

(330) 455-4556

GCPCUG: Consulting SIG - Facilitator

GCPCUG: FoxPro SIG - Facilitator

=A0

=A0

-----Original Message-----

From: profox@leafe.com [mailto:profox@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Matthew S.

Jarvis

Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 9:02 PM

To: Multiple recipients of ProFox

Subject: RE: Personal DevCon observations (note: very long)

Well, then you missed a lot..... Maybe you're a lot better versed in

what is

going on than I am, but I was able to fill my time with the following

sessions:

Discover the Power and Reach of Visual FoxPro - Keynote Presentation

Introduction to XML Technologies

Data Strategies in Visual FoxPro: Introduction

Data Strategies in Visual FoxPro: Advanced

Advanced COM in Visual FoxPro

Testing and Deploying Visual FoxPro Applications

Automating Outlook with Visual FoxPro

Introduction to N-tier System Design for Web Applications

Using XML with Visual FoxPro and SQL Server

Optimize SQL Server Queries

CFAST and Visual FoxPro

XML Web Services in Visual FoxPro

Integrating Distributed Applications with Business Objects

Error Handling in Visual FoxPro

SQL Server Administration

ADVISOR ANSWERS: Technical Q&A - Closing

I don't see a single .NET class in there..... Like it or not, .NET is an

ever emerging MS technology such that if things go according to plan,

we're

all probably going to have to at least be familiar if not proficient

with

it. To offer classes in this newer technology, especially for

disconnected

VFP folks who are interested in keeping current, only makes good sense.

At the moment I couldn't care less about .NET, but if my work demanded

it

and I came from the VFP world, this would have been a good way to look

at

.NET from a VFP viewpoint.

Matthew S. Jarvis

Eugene, Oregon USA

m@ttjarvis.com

-----Original Message-----

From: profox@leafe.com [mailto:profox@leafe.com]On Behalf Of Jacci

Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 2:00 PM

To: Multiple recipients of ProFox

Subject: RE: Personal DevCon observations (note: very long)

Hi Bill,

I'm so glad I decided to save my money this year.

Jacci Adams

Lindsay-Adams Consulting

jacci@neo.rr.com

GCPCUG: Consulting SIG - Facilitator

GCPCUG: FoxPro SIG - Facilitator

=A0

=A0

-----Original Message-----

From: profox@leafe.com [mailto:profox@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Bill

Anderson

Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 8:21 PM

To: Multiple recipients of ProFox

Subject: Personal DevCon observations (note: very long)

As I type this I'm finally coming back from DevCon on a Saturday

afternoon/evening/night. I'd thought I'd take the time to write some

personal observations while I'm 30,000+ feet in the air...

Saturday night Lauren Simon and I went over the schedule. It was rather

embarassing -- there's at least as many (if not more) .Net sessions as

VFP sessions. Eh folks, this is a VFP conference?!? Here's some examples

of the class sessions:

Intro to ASP.NET for VFP developers

Intro to VB.NET for VFP developers

Intro to ADO.NET for VFP developers

VFP and .NET in Action

Intro to C#.NET for VFP developers

Intro to the .NET Framework for VFP developers

...etc...

MSFT believes that putting the fig leaf "for VFP developers" makes

anything palatable. IOW "(any MSFT commercial) for VFP developers" is

okay.

Here's a radical thought: How about "Using the Class Browser and Object

Browser for VFP developers" ???? Not at this conference...

Sunday night:

Keynote: A bit long and a bit ragged, but a lot of meat for VFP

developers! I'm nearly shocked by not overpromoting .NET! Lauren and I

kept track of how many times Visual FoxPro was mentioned versus .NET in

the keynote. Technically, .NET won, but there's an explanation. Here's

the numbers:

Visual FoxPro -- 63

VFP -- 43

FoxPro -- 132

.NET -- 74

It is totally fair to combine the three VFP variants for a total number

of 238 mentions versus 74 mentions for .NET. In fact, I wouldn't have

had a problem with a bit more of a .NET mention. The point here is that

the .NET promotion at the keynote was in no way over the top. I'm

feeling better about this conference....

Jim Booth did his now famous rendition of "House Of the Rising Sun".

Sadly, it's his only rendition at the conference, as he had to leave the

conference early...

First session Monday, Ted Roche drops this bomb in his "Automating

Outlook with Visual FoxPro" session. (It's already been mentioned on

this forum but I repeat it here). I'm paraphrasing here...Profox is a

place where some of the smartest VFP developers get together to talk

about sheep". I just about fall out of my chair. Ted later indicated

that he saw me in the audience busting a gut...

Jeb Long is at this conference. For those that don't know, Jeb is the

pioneer of the whole class of xBase languages. Some personal background:

Jeb is somewhat shy but moreover, is very humble about his

accomplishments. His wife of 37 years died suddenly some time last year.

No illness, no hint of a problem, died of a heart attack. He felt very,

very lucky in what he describes as a happy and fun marriage. Needless to

say, it's taken him some time to adjust. I get the sense that he had

such a good relationship with his wife that he's lost some of his

ability to forge friendships on his own (IMO).

Anyway, I've known him for about a year. He's come to LA Fox a number of

times and has dome 3 night hikes with me and our hiking group recently.

I've been "pumping" him to other people whenever I had an opportunity to

do so -- talking about his marvelous accomplishments -- whereupon Jeb

immediately disavows it as no big deal. (At this point I'd make some

joke about his proudest career accomplishment is as an LAFox attendee.

But I'm setting him up for what's to follow. I've been setting this hook

for months). At the conference, Jeb is comfortable with me and hangs

around me whenever he can. Eventually, people ask who he is, whereupon I

go through the same spiel (without the LA Fox jab). Before his session,

he's probably heard me do this about 15 times. He's slightly embarassed

each time but is getting a bit used to it, though he'd probably wish I'd

not hammer the same point so often....(I'm setting the hook even deeper,

folks)

His session Monday evening with Ken Levy is about the history of xBase.

Jeb gets up there for about a half hour. Throughout the rest of the

conference, people are coming up to him in near reverential tones about

his accomplishments. Toward the end of the conference, his body language

tells me that he's slowly adjusting to this adulation and is tentatively

reaching out to others as well. Mission accomplished. If Jeb comes to

another FoxPro DevCon, be sure to say hi and introduce yourself.

The jam session drummer from New York is awesome... The jam session

doesn't get as good as Miami, but get's pretty good in spots.

I meet Cindy Winegarden, Matt Jarvis and Chuck Urwiler for the first

time. I've known whom Chuck is for years but never introduced myself...

The next night, Brian Jones does his CFast (formerly JFast) demo. He

indicates that this or the JFast app (My guess it's the JFast app as the

cFast app at this point is a prototype) was used in conjunction with

Afghanistan (no surprise) and that Donald Rumsfeld has seen the output

of this app. At the end, Brian Jones says "Over our dead bodies" in

relation to about the possibility of VFP going away. I don't remember

the specific question but I do remember the tenor of the question. His

response would lead me to believe that VFP might be around longer

whether MSFT likes it or not...

Later that night is the toast to Tom Rettig. Unfortunately, we've had to

add Tom Piper to the toast. About a dozen or so people speak. I've not

been to all the toasts but for me, it's by far the most touching of the

tributes. I get in to the center of the ring to add my story. I only

remember stumbling and bumbling my way through the speech. Somehow,

people get the gist of it and even thank me later for it. I'm not

bragging here folks, I'm surprised. Here's the distilled version of what

I was trying to say...

I knew both Tom Rettig and Tom Piper. Both were very friendly

individuals and were always happy to see you at whatever VFP conference

you were at. Both Toms had their demons -- but that's not why we're

gathered here. We're gathered here not because of their flaws, but to

cherish their strengths. The Toms went out of their way to say hello to

you -- to take the time to get to know you as an individual. I would

feel like Norm on the TV show "Cheers", walking down the steps toward

the bar and everyone at the bar yells "Norm!". They were just happy to

see you.

Both of these deaths are tragic. However, we can learn from these

tragedies by instilling their spirits into your lives. I ask that you,

the audience, introduce yourself to some of the DevCon newbies and get

to know them as people. Go out of your way to make them feel comfortable

as the Toms did you.

Here's to the Toms.

I remember Roxanne Siebert came up after me and it broke up. I went to

the restroom and cried. Afterwards, I'm off-kilter for the rest of the

evening.

The Jims/Daryls on this ProFox list are nice guys. I know 'em from LAFox

but now others are noting it as well. Ed Leafe is still the best

socializer at DevCon and that's saying something. He's probably the best

embodiment of the spirit of both Toms.

Sometime in Wednesday, Ted Roche, Marcia Akins, I and others (Tamar

Granor?) are in an elevator going to our rooms. I mention to Ted that

the sheep mention reached the ProFox list. Ted acknowledges it, the two

women ask "Whaddya mean sheep?" Ted and I say that you don't want to

know. Elevator stops. Ted and Marcia get out. Marcia asks "What's this

sheep thing?" as the door closes. Another gut buster. I know Ted's gotta

give up the secret to Marcia...

I can go on and on but I gotta stop somewhere.

It's near unaminous that the closing session was a real downer. I'll let

others chime in on that as I didn't think it was all that bad.

That's all for now...

Bill Anderson