Re: SQL Backend Question

Index

2017-02-03 10:50 – Paul H. Tarver : SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

2017-02-03 11:06 – Thierry Nivelet : Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

2017-02-03 13:11 – Fernando D. Bozzo : Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

2017-02-03 13:22 – Stephen Russell : Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

2017-02-03 14:12 – Thierry Nivelet : Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

2017-02-03 14:13 – Thierry Nivelet : Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

2017-02-03 15:19 – Paul H. Tarver : RE: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

2017-02-03 15:29 – Paul H. Tarver : RE: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

2017-02-04 03:49 – Thierry Nivelet : Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

2017-02-05 05:02 – AndyHC : Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

Author: Paul H. Tarver

Posted: 2017-02-03 10:50:06 Link

Ok, from the range of answers I got back so far, all of which I appreciate

greatly, it is clear that I need to clarify my project and goals just a bit

in order to narrow the width of the discussion.

Here's the situation and the parameters:

1) I have a client that is still using a btrieve based dos system that

I created 20+ years ago to keep up with the names, addresses and activities

of in excess of 30k+ members. The system creates a lot of specialized

reports for the client and they have been unwilling to move to anything else

because of all the custom functionality built into the system. (In case you

are wondering, they are running the system on virtualized XP Pro systems as

the verision of btrieve they have dies on anything later.)

2) I want to upgrade them to a VFP9 + Windows user interface and

application in order to get them off the virtual machines, to take advantage

of a lot of the speed and features available in VFP9 and I could certainly

completely re-write this system in VFP using native dbf table if I chose to

do so. HOWEVER.

3) In the long term, I can see a future for this client where they have

a web-based front-end for members of their group to login remotely via the

web and maintain their demographic data themselves thereby de-centralizing a

lot of the data entry process currently done by the home office.

4) Plus, I want the best of both worlds. I want the users in the

central office to take advantage of all the functionality I can bring to

them with VFP9 as a networked desktop application AND at some point I want

to add a web-based front-end for remote users to update various data points.

The final requirement is not really a requirement but a desire on my part to

learn how to best handle the data entry process and build the user interface

functionality in VFP9 to create a desktop application using SQL as data

storage. I am used to creating a form with a tabbed pageframe on it,

creating a data grid on the first tab, adding some filter capabilities for

searches and then putting all the fields on the second or third or fourth or

however many detail tabs I need to conveniently display the data I want the

user to edit, add, delete or save through a sub-classed button bar that I

drop on the form and connect to the table in question. My sub-classed tools

use CURSORGETPROP to detect any changes and prompt the user to save the

buffered changes if necessary.

I have come to the understanding from all I've read that this method of

providing grid based data entry screens for users (while perfectly workable

in my data interface projects) will not be as efficient when it comes to

using SQL instead of native DBFs. I have also read lots of different

opinions on how best to let the user search for the specific record they

want to use and I have tried to review as many programs as I can to get some

sense of the generally accepted method that makes the most sense for a best

practices user interface but no joy so far. Once a user finds the record in

question, I need to figure out what code snippets I need to build to detect

changes and push the updates back to the SQL database and all the other

stuff that goes along with that.

My hope was that someone could point me toward some good VFP examples or

articles specific to VFP that outlines the best practices that seemed to

work best. I am not interested in moving to a development tool other than

VFP9, because my personal goal in doing the project is to give me a way to

learn to program the best user interface I can with VFP as the front-end and

SQL as the backend.

Hopefully that clarifies my original question just a bit.

Paul H. Tarver

Tarver Program Consultants, Inc.

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Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

Author: Thierry Nivelet

Posted: 2017-02-03 11:06:09 Link

Paul,

WRT to searching records and ergonomics, here is a sample VFP

application that works on either the LAN or the Web with a similar user

interface:

http://foxincloud.com/ip/ (test database, you can go ahead modifying

anything you want)

Pass SG

Some data entry are made directly in the grid, some on sub-forms

Works with VFP data for now, ready for a migration to SQL server using

Cursor Adapters.

Thierry Nivelet

FoxInCloud

Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud

http://foxincloud.com/

Le 03/02/2017 à 17:50, Paul H. Tarver a écrit :

> Ok, from the range of answers I got back so far, all of which I appreciate

> greatly, it is clear that I need to clarify my project and goals just a bit

> in order to narrow the width of the discussion.

> Here's the situation and the parameters:

> 1) I have a client that is still using a btrieve based dos system that

> I created 20+ years ago to keep up with the names, addresses and activities

> of in excess of 30k+ members. The system creates a lot of specialized

> reports for the client and they have been unwilling to move to anything else

> because of all the custom functionality built into the system. (In case you

> are wondering, they are running the system on virtualized XP Pro systems as

> the verision of btrieve they have dies on anything later.)

> 2) I want to upgrade them to a VFP9 + Windows user interface and

> application in order to get them off the virtual machines, to take advantage

> of a lot of the speed and features available in VFP9 and I could certainly

> completely re-write this system in VFP using native dbf table if I chose to

> do so. HOWEVER.

> 3) In the long term, I can see a future for this client where they have

> a web-based front-end for members of their group to login remotely via the

> web and maintain their demographic data themselves thereby de-centralizing a

> lot of the data entry process currently done by the home office.

> 4) Plus, I want the best of both worlds. I want the users in the

> central office to take advantage of all the functionality I can bring to

> them with VFP9 as a networked desktop application AND at some point I want

> to add a web-based front-end for remote users to update various data points.

> The final requirement is not really a requirement but a desire on my part to

> learn how to best handle the data entry process and build the user interface

> functionality in VFP9 to create a desktop application using SQL as data

> storage. I am used to creating a form with a tabbed pageframe on it,

> creating a data grid on the first tab, adding some filter capabilities for

> searches and then putting all the fields on the second or third or fourth or

> however many detail tabs I need to conveniently display the data I want the

> user to edit, add, delete or save through a sub-classed button bar that I

> drop on the form and connect to the table in question. My sub-classed tools

> use CURSORGETPROP to detect any changes and prompt the user to save the

> buffered changes if necessary.

> I have come to the understanding from all I've read that this method of

> providing grid based data entry screens for users (while perfectly workable

> in my data interface projects) will not be as efficient when it comes to

> using SQL instead of native DBFs. I have also read lots of different

> opinions on how best to let the user search for the specific record they

> want to use and I have tried to review as many programs as I can to get some

> sense of the generally accepted method that makes the most sense for a best

> practices user interface but no joy so far. Once a user finds the record in

> question, I need to figure out what code snippets I need to build to detect

> changes and push the updates back to the SQL database and all the other

> stuff that goes along with that.

> My hope was that someone could point me toward some good VFP examples or

> articles specific to VFP that outlines the best practices that seemed to

> work best. I am not interested in moving to a development tool other than

> VFP9, because my personal goal in doing the project is to give me a way to

> learn to program the best user interface I can with VFP as the front-end and

> SQL as the backend.

> Hopefully that clarifies my original question just a bit.

> Paul H. Tarver

> Tarver Program Consultants, Inc.

> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---

> multipart/alternative

> text/plain (text body -- kept)

> text/html

> ---

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Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

Author: Fernando D. Bozzo

Posted: 2017-02-03 13:11:15 Link

Hi Paul,

now it's much clear what you want. At first seemed to me like you wanted to

change technology.

Ok, so these are just some points about general good practices applied on

VFP and used in practice in my experience:

- Forget grids, or at least forget showing ALL the data to the user. This

do not work with C/S system, because do not scale. You will need predefined

filters on the search screens, so the user can change them, but never take

out all of them, so the query to the server brings a limited scope of

records. You can bring records in chunks if you need to show something with

"more records" or "next page" or similar, but never bring all the data.

That's fundamental.

- You can cache part of the data for those tables that are hevily used if

needed, maybe a view that updates from time to time based on a datetime

timestamp for synchronizing

- All logic that you can put on the database, is reusable by other fronts.

In some cases some processes are faster on the database

- Forget about locking records. There are no such thing on C/S systems

(well, technically you can, but it's really a bad idea)

- If going to web in some point, then Thierry's FoxInCloud could be a good

idea

- For local editing of data you can use a loca cursor if you want, so you

can use the same data modification detection techniques you already know

(getNextModified(), etc) but at the end the data must go to the server, so

no need to have a real table in local. Another approach is using an object

whose properties are bound to the ControlSources (we use this approach in

one of our apps), but in this case all the change-detection is by code

- This seems a big project, so Source Control is very important. You have

many options here, I suggest using a DVCS (Distributed Version Control

System)

If using git, then you have these projects available:

Lutz Scheffler's "Bin 2 Text extension" at VFPx:

http://vfpx.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=Bin%202%20Text%20Extension

Mike Potjer's "Git Utils" at github:

https://github.com/mikepotjer/vfp-git-utils

If using Plastc, then you can use the "Plastic tools for Visual FoxPro 9":

https://github.com/fdbozzo/plasticscm-tools-for-visual-foxpro-9

If using another SCM/DVCS like SourceSafe, Mercurial or similar, then you

can use FoxBin2Prg because of the two-way conversion between binaries and

text:

http://vfpx.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=FoxBin2Prg

On the server side, you mentioned SQLServer. I suppose your client have a

license, but if not, there is no need to buy one, you can use any DB, like

PostgreSQL, MariaDB, etc, for free.

Finally, if you want to test your code (more good practices:) in an

automated or semi-automated way, then you can use the excellent Eric

Selje's FoxUnit:

http://vfpx.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=FoxUnit&referringTitle=Home

May be others can add more on the SQL topic, articles or more resources.

Fernando D. Bozzo

2017-02-03 17:50 GMT+01:00 Paul H. Tarver <paul@tpcqpc.com>:

> Ok, from the range of answers I got back so far, all of which I appreciate

> greatly, it is clear that I need to clarify my project and goals just a bit

> in order to narrow the width of the discussion.

> Here's the situation and the parameters:

> 1) I have a client that is still using a btrieve based dos system that

> I created 20+ years ago to keep up with the names, addresses and activities

> of in excess of 30k+ members. The system creates a lot of specialized

> reports for the client and they have been unwilling to move to anything

> else

> because of all the custom functionality built into the system. (In case you

> are wondering, they are running the system on virtualized XP Pro systems as

> the verision of btrieve they have dies on anything later.)

> 2) I want to upgrade them to a VFP9 + Windows user interface and

> application in order to get them off the virtual machines, to take

> advantage

> of a lot of the speed and features available in VFP9 and I could certainly

> completely re-write this system in VFP using native dbf table if I chose to

> do so. HOWEVER.

> 3) In the long term, I can see a future for this client where they

> have

> a web-based front-end for members of their group to login remotely via the

> web and maintain their demographic data themselves thereby de-centralizing

> a

> lot of the data entry process currently done by the home office.

> 4) Plus, I want the best of both worlds. I want the users in the

> central office to take advantage of all the functionality I can bring to

> them with VFP9 as a networked desktop application AND at some point I want

> to add a web-based front-end for remote users to update various data

> points.

> The final requirement is not really a requirement but a desire on my part

> to

> learn how to best handle the data entry process and build the user

> interface

> functionality in VFP9 to create a desktop application using SQL as data

> storage. I am used to creating a form with a tabbed pageframe on it,

> creating a data grid on the first tab, adding some filter capabilities for

> searches and then putting all the fields on the second or third or fourth

> or

> however many detail tabs I need to conveniently display the data I want the

> user to edit, add, delete or save through a sub-classed button bar that I

> drop on the form and connect to the table in question. My sub-classed tools

> use CURSORGETPROP to detect any changes and prompt the user to save the

> buffered changes if necessary.

> I have come to the understanding from all I've read that this method of

> providing grid based data entry screens for users (while perfectly workable

> in my data interface projects) will not be as efficient when it comes to

> using SQL instead of native DBFs. I have also read lots of different

> opinions on how best to let the user search for the specific record they

> want to use and I have tried to review as many programs as I can to get

> some

> sense of the generally accepted method that makes the most sense for a best

> practices user interface but no joy so far. Once a user finds the record in

> question, I need to figure out what code snippets I need to build to detect

> changes and push the updates back to the SQL database and all the other

> stuff that goes along with that.

> My hope was that someone could point me toward some good VFP examples or

> articles specific to VFP that outlines the best practices that seemed to

> work best. I am not interested in moving to a development tool other than

> VFP9, because my personal goal in doing the project is to give me a way to

> learn to program the best user interface I can with VFP as the front-end

> and

> SQL as the backend.

> Hopefully that clarifies my original question just a bit.

> Paul H. Tarver

> Tarver Program Consultants, Inc.

> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---

> multipart/alternative

> text/plain (text body -- kept)

> text/html

> ---

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Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

Author: Stephen Russell

Posted: 2017-02-03 13:22:26 Link

I read that you are doing a 100% rewrite and none of it is in fox-anything?

That new system will also have a data and a lot of reports.

In the future you want to go and redo it again for the web, but not now.

Looks like twice the work in reality unless you process most of the data on

the backend and just about every request gives you a dataset back, updates

and edits don't return a lot of data yeah I know.

Here at work the word twice would get the project killed. Do it once for

now and the future.

You may not know anything about programming UI for the web and that is why

you'll do it first and then maybe come back. How long do you think it will

take just to port it into Fox? 3 months or 6?

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Paul H. Tarver <paul@tpcqpc.com> wrote:

> Ok, from the range of answers I got back so far, all of which I appreciate

> greatly, it is clear that I need to clarify my project and goals just a bit

> in order to narrow the width of the discussion.

> Here's the situation and the parameters:

> 1) I have a client that is still using a btrieve based dos system that

> I created 20+ years ago to keep up with the names, addresses and activities

> of in excess of 30k+ members. The system creates a lot of specialized

> reports for the client and they have been unwilling to move to anything

> else

> because of all the custom functionality built into the system. (In case you

> are wondering, they are running the system on virtualized XP Pro systems as

> the verision of btrieve they have dies on anything later.)

> 2) I want to upgrade them to a VFP9 + Windows user interface and

> application in order to get them off the virtual machines, to take

> advantage

> of a lot of the speed and features available in VFP9 and I could certainly

> completely re-write this system in VFP using native dbf table if I chose to

> do so. HOWEVER.

> 3) In the long term, I can see a future for this client where they

> have

> a web-based front-end for members of their group to login remotely via the

> web and maintain their demographic data themselves thereby de-centralizing

> a

> lot of the data entry process currently done by the home office.

> 4) Plus, I want the best of both worlds. I want the users in the

> central office to take advantage of all the functionality I can bring to

> them with VFP9 as a networked desktop application AND at some point I want

> to add a web-based front-end for remote users to update various data

> points.

> The final requirement is not really a requirement but a desire on my part

> to

> learn how to best handle the data entry process and build the user

> interface

> functionality in VFP9 to create a desktop application using SQL as data

> storage. I am used to creating a form with a tabbed pageframe on it,

> creating a data grid on the first tab, adding some filter capabilities for

> searches and then putting all the fields on the second or third or fourth

> or

> however many detail tabs I need to conveniently display the data I want the

> user to edit, add, delete or save through a sub-classed button bar that I

> drop on the form and connect to the table in question. My sub-classed tools

> use CURSORGETPROP to detect any changes and prompt the user to save the

> buffered changes if necessary.

> I have come to the understanding from all I've read that this method of

> providing grid based data entry screens for users (while perfectly workable

> in my data interface projects) will not be as efficient when it comes to

> using SQL instead of native DBFs. I have also read lots of different

> opinions on how best to let the user search for the specific record they

> want to use and I have tried to review as many programs as I can to get

> some

> sense of the generally accepted method that makes the most sense for a best

> practices user interface but no joy so far. Once a user finds the record in

> question, I need to figure out what code snippets I need to build to detect

> changes and push the updates back to the SQL database and all the other

> stuff that goes along with that.

> My hope was that someone could point me toward some good VFP examples or

> articles specific to VFP that outlines the best practices that seemed to

> work best. I am not interested in moving to a development tool other than

> VFP9, because my personal goal in doing the project is to give me a way to

> learn to program the best user interface I can with VFP as the front-end

> and

> SQL as the backend.

> Hopefully that clarifies my original question just a bit.

> Paul H. Tarver

> Tarver Program Consultants, Inc.

> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---

> multipart/alternative

> text/plain (text body -- kept)

> text/html

> ---

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

Author: Thierry Nivelet

Posted: 2017-02-03 14:12:08 Link

> forget grids showing ALL the data to the user

FWIW, FoxInCloud comes with a paged grid with sorting & filtering

capability: just drop an existing grid at design time into the container

class supplied by FoxInCloud and it'll get paged in Web mode. User can

set the number of items per page and it'll persist across sessions.

> Thierry's FoxInCloud could be a good idea

could also be a real opportunity; doesn't the video I recently posted

showing a responsive Web App from a 'regular' VFP app look terrific? ;)

Thierry Nivelet

FoxInCloud

Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud

http://foxincloud.com/

Le 03/02/2017 à 20:11, Fernando D. Bozzo a écrit :

> Hi Paul,

> now it's much clear what you want. At first seemed to me like you wanted to

> change technology.

> Ok, so these are just some points about general good practices applied on

> VFP and used in practice in my experience:

> - Forget grids, or at least forget showing ALL the data to the user. This

> do not work with C/S system, because do not scale. You will need predefined

> filters on the search screens, so the user can change them, but never take

> out all of them, so the query to the server brings a limited scope of

> records. You can bring records in chunks if you need to show something with

> "more records" or "next page" or similar, but never bring all the data.

> That's fundamental.

> - You can cache part of the data for those tables that are hevily used if

> needed, maybe a view that updates from time to time based on a datetime

> timestamp for synchronizing

> - All logic that you can put on the database, is reusable by other fronts.

> In some cases some processes are faster on the database

> - Forget about locking records. There are no such thing on C/S systems

> (well, technically you can, but it's really a bad idea)

> - If going to web in some point, then Thierry's FoxInCloud could be a good

> idea

> - For local editing of data you can use a loca cursor if you want, so you

> can use the same data modification detection techniques you already know

> (getNextModified(), etc) but at the end the data must go to the server, so

> no need to have a real table in local. Another approach is using an object

> whose properties are bound to the ControlSources (we use this approach in

> one of our apps), but in this case all the change-detection is by code

> - This seems a big project, so Source Control is very important. You have

> many options here, I suggest using a DVCS (Distributed Version Control

> System)

> If using git, then you have these projects available:

> Lutz Scheffler's "Bin 2 Text extension" at VFPx:

> http://vfpx.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=Bin%202%20Text%20Extension

> Mike Potjer's "Git Utils" at github:

> https://github.com/mikepotjer/vfp-git-utils

> If using Plastc, then you can use the "Plastic tools for Visual FoxPro 9":

> https://github.com/fdbozzo/plasticscm-tools-for-visual-foxpro-9

> If using another SCM/DVCS like SourceSafe, Mercurial or similar, then you

> can use FoxBin2Prg because of the two-way conversion between binaries and

> text:

> http://vfpx.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=FoxBin2Prg

> On the server side, you mentioned SQLServer. I suppose your client have a

> license, but if not, there is no need to buy one, you can use any DB, like

> PostgreSQL, MariaDB, etc, for free.

> Finally, if you want to test your code (more good practices:) in an

> automated or semi-automated way, then you can use the excellent Eric

> Selje's FoxUnit:

> http://vfpx.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=FoxUnit&referringTitle=Home

> May be others can add more on the SQL topic, articles or more resources.

> Fernando D. Bozzo

> 2017-02-03 17:50 GMT+01:00 Paul H. Tarver <paul@tpcqpc.com>:

>> Ok, from the range of answers I got back so far, all of which I appreciate

>> greatly, it is clear that I need to clarify my project and goals just a bit

>> in order to narrow the width of the discussion.

>> Here's the situation and the parameters:

>> 1) I have a client that is still using a btrieve based dos system that

>> I created 20+ years ago to keep up with the names, addresses and activities

>> of in excess of 30k+ members. The system creates a lot of specialized

>> reports for the client and they have been unwilling to move to anything

>> else

>> because of all the custom functionality built into the system. (In case you

>> are wondering, they are running the system on virtualized XP Pro systems as

>> the verision of btrieve they have dies on anything later.)

>> 2) I want to upgrade them to a VFP9 + Windows user interface and

>> application in order to get them off the virtual machines, to take

>> advantage

>> of a lot of the speed and features available in VFP9 and I could certainly

>> completely re-write this system in VFP using native dbf table if I chose to

>> do so. HOWEVER.

>> 3) In the long term, I can see a future for this client where they

>> have

>> a web-based front-end for members of their group to login remotely via the

>> web and maintain their demographic data themselves thereby de-centralizing

>> a

>> lot of the data entry process currently done by the home office.

>> 4) Plus, I want the best of both worlds. I want the users in the

>> central office to take advantage of all the functionality I can bring to

>> them with VFP9 as a networked desktop application AND at some point I want

>> to add a web-based front-end for remote users to update various data

>> points.

>> The final requirement is not really a requirement but a desire on my part

>> to

>> learn how to best handle the data entry process and build the user

>> interface

>> functionality in VFP9 to create a desktop application using SQL as data

>> storage. I am used to creating a form with a tabbed pageframe on it,

>> creating a data grid on the first tab, adding some filter capabilities for

>> searches and then putting all the fields on the second or third or fourth

>> or

>> however many detail tabs I need to conveniently display the data I want the

>> user to edit, add, delete or save through a sub-classed button bar that I

>> drop on the form and connect to the table in question. My sub-classed tools

>> use CURSORGETPROP to detect any changes and prompt the user to save the

>> buffered changes if necessary.

>> I have come to the understanding from all I've read that this method of

>> providing grid based data entry screens for users (while perfectly workable

>> in my data interface projects) will not be as efficient when it comes to

>> using SQL instead of native DBFs. I have also read lots of different

>> opinions on how best to let the user search for the specific record they

>> want to use and I have tried to review as many programs as I can to get

>> some

>> sense of the generally accepted method that makes the most sense for a best

>> practices user interface but no joy so far. Once a user finds the record in

>> question, I need to figure out what code snippets I need to build to detect

>> changes and push the updates back to the SQL database and all the other

>> stuff that goes along with that.

>> My hope was that someone could point me toward some good VFP examples or

>> articles specific to VFP that outlines the best practices that seemed to

>> work best. I am not interested in moving to a development tool other than

>> VFP9, because my personal goal in doing the project is to give me a way to

>> learn to program the best user interface I can with VFP as the front-end

>> and

>> SQL as the backend.

>> Hopefully that clarifies my original question just a bit.

>> Paul H. Tarver

>> Tarver Program Consultants, Inc.

>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---

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Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

Author: Thierry Nivelet

Posted: 2017-02-03 14:13:23 Link

> redo it again for the web

Sounds old school! FoxInCloud can save you that pain… ;)

Thierry Nivelet

FoxInCloud

Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud

http://foxincloud.com/

Le 03/02/2017 à 20:22, Stephen Russell a écrit :

> I read that you are doing a 100% rewrite and none of it is in fox-anything?

> That new system will also have a data and a lot of reports.

> In the future you want to go and redo it again for the web, but not now.

> Looks like twice the work in reality unless you process most of the data on

> the backend and just about every request gives you a dataset back, updates

> and edits don't return a lot of data yeah I know.

> Here at work the word twice would get the project killed. Do it once for

> now and the future.

> You may not know anything about programming UI for the web and that is why

> you'll do it first and then maybe come back. How long do you think it will

> take just to port it into Fox? 3 months or 6?

> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Paul H. Tarver <paul@tpcqpc.com> wrote:

>> Ok, from the range of answers I got back so far, all of which I appreciate

>> greatly, it is clear that I need to clarify my project and goals just a bit

>> in order to narrow the width of the discussion.

>> Here's the situation and the parameters:

>> 1) I have a client that is still using a btrieve based dos system that

>> I created 20+ years ago to keep up with the names, addresses and activities

>> of in excess of 30k+ members. The system creates a lot of specialized

>> reports for the client and they have been unwilling to move to anything

>> else

>> because of all the custom functionality built into the system. (In case you

>> are wondering, they are running the system on virtualized XP Pro systems as

>> the verision of btrieve they have dies on anything later.)

>> 2) I want to upgrade them to a VFP9 + Windows user interface and

>> application in order to get them off the virtual machines, to take

>> advantage

>> of a lot of the speed and features available in VFP9 and I could certainly

>> completely re-write this system in VFP using native dbf table if I chose to

>> do so. HOWEVER.

>> 3) In the long term, I can see a future for this client where they

>> have

>> a web-based front-end for members of their group to login remotely via the

>> web and maintain their demographic data themselves thereby de-centralizing

>> a

>> lot of the data entry process currently done by the home office.

>> 4) Plus, I want the best of both worlds. I want the users in the

>> central office to take advantage of all the functionality I can bring to

>> them with VFP9 as a networked desktop application AND at some point I want

>> to add a web-based front-end for remote users to update various data

>> points.

>> The final requirement is not really a requirement but a desire on my part

>> to

>> learn how to best handle the data entry process and build the user

>> interface

>> functionality in VFP9 to create a desktop application using SQL as data

>> storage. I am used to creating a form with a tabbed pageframe on it,

>> creating a data grid on the first tab, adding some filter capabilities for

>> searches and then putting all the fields on the second or third or fourth

>> or

>> however many detail tabs I need to conveniently display the data I want the

>> user to edit, add, delete or save through a sub-classed button bar that I

>> drop on the form and connect to the table in question. My sub-classed tools

>> use CURSORGETPROP to detect any changes and prompt the user to save the

>> buffered changes if necessary.

>> I have come to the understanding from all I've read that this method of

>> providing grid based data entry screens for users (while perfectly workable

>> in my data interface projects) will not be as efficient when it comes to

>> using SQL instead of native DBFs. I have also read lots of different

>> opinions on how best to let the user search for the specific record they

>> want to use and I have tried to review as many programs as I can to get

>> some

>> sense of the generally accepted method that makes the most sense for a best

>> practices user interface but no joy so far. Once a user finds the record in

>> question, I need to figure out what code snippets I need to build to detect

>> changes and push the updates back to the SQL database and all the other

>> stuff that goes along with that.

>> My hope was that someone could point me toward some good VFP examples or

>> articles specific to VFP that outlines the best practices that seemed to

>> work best. I am not interested in moving to a development tool other than

>> VFP9, because my personal goal in doing the project is to give me a way to

>> learn to program the best user interface I can with VFP as the front-end

>> and

>> SQL as the backend.

>> Hopefully that clarifies my original question just a bit.

>> Paul H. Tarver

>> Tarver Program Consultants, Inc.

>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---

>> multipart/alternative

>> text/plain (text body -- kept)

>> text/html

>> ---

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RE: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

Author: Paul H. Tarver

Posted: 2017-02-03 15:19:19 Link

Now we are getting to hear to the heart of what I'm looking for,

specifically your first point, Fernado: Changing my VFP grid mentality into

something that is scalable for a client server approach for the data

storage. Fundamentally, the questions I have are: What does the best

practices user interface for updating data look like in a client/server

environment vs native VFP desktop, and what are the general things required

to make that work. In my standard environment it works like this:

1) open a table in buffered mode

2) let the user browse that data

3) user choices record to edit

4) user edits field and when field loses focus, we check to see if there

were any changes.

5) If changes detected, we enable a "save" button and if the user tries to

exit the screen without clicking "save" we prompt them to save or discard.

6) If 'save' option made by clicking button or confirming save query, then

new data is written to table.

I am aware that this outline of procedure would necessarily be different in

the client/server configuration and that is exactly what I'm trying to

determine and what are the best ways to implement that client/server

approach.

Your information was very helpful and answered a couple of questions for me

already.

Do you know of any applications out there that are written in VFP with a

client/server backend that might have a demo that I can review or try in

order to get some ideas?

Thanks again!

Paul H. Tarver

Tarver Program Consultants, Inc.

-----Original Message-----

From: Fernando D. Bozzo [mailto:fdbozzo@gmail.com]

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 1:11 PM

To: profoxtech@leafe.com

Subject: Re: SQL Backend Question - Part Deux

Hi Paul,

now it's much clear what you want. At first seemed to me like you wanted to

change technology.

Ok, so these are just some points about general good practices applied on

VFP and used in practice in my experience:

- Forget grids, or at least forget showing ALL the data to the user. This do

not work with C/S system, because do not scale. You will need predefined