Sorry to bring this old chestnut up again but now we are "two" here (myself and Tom) at Flexipol it has become very clear that we need some sort of versioning software for VFP 9 and I am wondering what is the current flavour of the day with you folks out there.
Obviously Visual SourceSafe is available but I must admit to having mixed feelings about it after using it in VFP 6 days after the database became corrupted and we couldn't access any versions of the source code never mind the older revision so I will take council on its use. We have MSDN so the latest Team Foundation is available but I must admit t knowing diddly squat about it!
So, any recommendations/likes/hates/gotchas would be helpful.
Dave
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I use Subversion/TortoiseSVN along with Christof's TwoFox utility to
convert the binary files.
http://www.foxpert.com/docs/cvs.en.htm
https://subversion.apache.org/
Various other people here swear by git, though....
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Dave Crozier <DaveC@flexipol.co.uk> wrote:
> Sorry to bring this old chestnut up again but now we are "two" here
> (myself and Tom) at Flexipol it has become very clear that we need some
> sort of versioning software for VFP 9 and I am wondering what is the
> current flavour of the day with you folks out there.
>
> Obviously Visual SourceSafe is available but I must admit to having mixed
> feelings about it after using it in VFP 6 days after the database became
> corrupted and we couldn't access any versions of the source code never mind
> the older revision so I will take council on its use. We have MSDN so the
> latest Team Foundation is available but I must admit t knowing diddly squat
> about it!
>
> So, any recommendations/likes/hates/gotchas would be helpful.
>
> Dave
>
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Another vote for TwoFox to convert to-and-from VCX and SCX based files.
I've been using https://bitbucket.org/ for storing my projects.
BitBucket can use Git and Mercurial.
I like Mercurial better, but Git is much more popular by usage so I use
Git.
I use Smart Git Hg ( http://www.syntevo.com/smartgit/ ) because it runs
on Windows and Linux (and Mac OS X).
On 02/19/2015 06:07 AM, Dave Crozier wrote:
> Sorry to bring this old chestnut up again but now we are "two" here (myself and Tom) at Flexipol it has become very clear that we need some sort of versioning software for VFP 9 and I am wondering what is the current flavour of the day with you folks out there.
>
> Obviously Visual SourceSafe is available but I must admit to having mixed feelings about it after using it in VFP 6 days after the database became corrupted and we couldn't access any versions of the source code never mind the older revision so I will take council on its use. We have MSDN so the latest Team Foundation is available but I must admit t knowing diddly squat about it!
>
> So, any recommendations/likes/hates/gotchas would be helpful.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
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Thanks both Garrett and Kevin, I will give both solutions a look. Just as a matter of interest Kevin, does that handle Xojo projects as we may also be looking at taking that on board having used it myself for the last 2 years for personal projects.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Cully
Sent: 19 February 2015 14:26
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: Source Code Version Control
Another vote for TwoFox to convert to-and-from VCX and SCX based files.
I've been using https://bitbucket.org/ for storing my projects.
BitBucket can use Git and Mercurial.
I like Mercurial better, but Git is much more popular by usage so I use Git.
I use Smart Git Hg ( http://www.syntevo.com/smartgit/ ) because it runs on Windows and Linux (and Mac OS X).
On 02/19/2015 06:07 AM, Dave Crozier wrote:
> Sorry to bring this old chestnut up again but now we are "two" here (myself and Tom) at Flexipol it has become very clear that we need some sort of versioning software for VFP 9 and I am wondering what is the current flavour of the day with you folks out there.
>
> Obviously Visual SourceSafe is available but I must admit to having mixed feelings about it after using it in VFP 6 days after the database became corrupted and we couldn't access any versions of the source code never mind the older revision so I will take council on its use. We have MSDN so the latest Team Foundation is available but I must admit t knowing diddly squat about it!
>
> So, any recommendations/likes/hates/gotchas would be helpful.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]
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Author: Kevin Cully
Posted: 2015-02-19 10:29:57 Link
Yes, I use BitBucket more with Xojo projects than I do VFP projects to
be honest. That's where more of my new development efforts are.
For the free version of Xojo, you can only save the project in binary
format which is *not* source control friendly. When you purchase a
license however, the default Xojo project and files are modified JSON
like file that makes it easy to do code comparison and source code
control. The project file looks something like this from my
ctUtilsTest.xojo_project file: (abbreviated)
Type=Desktop
RBProjectVersion=2014.031
MinIDEVersion=20070100
Class=AppCTUtils;AppCTUtils.xojo_code;&h3883D7FF;&h0;false
Window=frmCTUtilsTest;frmCTUtilsTest.xojo_window;&h118E7FFF;&h0;false
MenuBar=MenuBar1;MenuBar1.xojo_menu;&h4E6EEFFF;&h0;false
Class=ctUtils;ctUtils.rbo;&h6D25FFF;&h0;false
BuildSteps=Build Automation;Build Automation.xojo_code;&h353A27FF;&h0;false
DefaultWindow=frmCTUtilsTest
AppMenuBar=MenuBar1
MajorVersion=1
MinorVersion=0
SubVersion=0
NonRelease=0
... lots more settings ...
HTH,
Kevin
On 02/19/2015 09:42 AM, Dave Crozier wrote:
> Thanks both Garrett and Kevin, I will give both solutions a look. Just as a matter of interest Kevin, does that handle Xojo projects as we may also be looking at taking that on board having used it myself for the last 2 years for personal projects.
>
> Dave
>
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Author: Dave Crozier
Posted: 2015-02-19 11:04:31 Link
Thanks Kevin.
I have the paid for Xojo Professional so I will give it a go. Currently I am trying to set up Christof's TwoFox so as to make everything as automatic as possible when you check out of a project. Nearly done though.
Thanks again
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Cully
Sent: 19 February 2015 16:30
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: [NF] Xojo Source Control ( was Re: Source Code Version Control )
Yes, I use BitBucket more with Xojo projects than I do VFP projects to be honest. That's where more of my new development efforts are.
For the free version of Xojo, you can only save the project in binary format which is *not* source control friendly. When you purchase a license however, the default Xojo project and files are modified JSON like file that makes it easy to do code comparison and source code control. The project file looks something like this from my ctUtilsTest.xojo_project file: (abbreviated)
Type=Desktop
RBProjectVersion=2014.031
MinIDEVersion=20070100
Class=AppCTUtils;AppCTUtils.xojo_code;&h3883D7FF;&h0;false
Window=frmCTUtilsTest;frmCTUtilsTest.xojo_window;&h118E7FFF;&h0;false
MenuBar=MenuBar1;MenuBar1.xojo_menu;&h4E6EEFFF;&h0;false
Class=ctUtils;ctUtils.rbo;&h6D25FFF;&h0;false
BuildSteps=Build Automation;Build Automation.xojo_code;&h353A27FF;&h0;false
DefaultWindow=frmCTUtilsTest
AppMenuBar=MenuBar1
MajorVersion=1
MinorVersion=0
SubVersion=0
NonRelease=0
... lots more settings ...
HTH,
Kevin
On 02/19/2015 09:42 AM, Dave Crozier wrote:
> Thanks both Garrett and Kevin, I will give both solutions a look. Just as a matter of interest Kevin, does that handle Xojo projects as we may also be looking at taking that on board having used it myself for the last 2 years for personal projects.
>
> Dave
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]
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I would chip in with the FOXBIN2PRG project on VFPX is worthy of a mention.
-----Original Message-----
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Dave Crozier
Sent: 19 February 2015 14:42
To: profoxtech@leafe.com
Subject: RE: Source Code Version Control
Thanks both Garrett and Kevin, I will give both solutions a look. Just as a matter of interest Kevin, does that handle Xojo projects as we may also be looking at taking that on board having used it myself for the last 2 years for personal projects.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: ProFox [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Cully
Sent: 19 February 2015 14:26
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: Source Code Version Control
Another vote for TwoFox to convert to-and-from VCX and SCX based files.
I've been using https://bitbucket.org/ for storing my projects.
BitBucket can use Git and Mercurial.
I like Mercurial better, but Git is much more popular by usage so I use Git.
I use Smart Git Hg ( http://www.syntevo.com/smartgit/ ) because it runs on Windows and Linux (and Mac OS X).
On 02/19/2015 06:07 AM, Dave Crozier wrote:
> Sorry to bring this old chestnut up again but now we are "two" here (myself and Tom) at Flexipol it has become very clear that we need some sort of versioning software for VFP 9 and I am wondering what is the current flavour of the day with you folks out there.
>
> Obviously Visual SourceSafe is available but I must admit to having mixed feelings about it after using it in VFP 6 days after the database became corrupted and we couldn't access any versions of the source code never mind the older revision so I will take council on its use. We have MSDN so the latest Team Foundation is available but I must admit t knowing diddly squat about it!
>
> So, any recommendations/likes/hates/gotchas would be helpful.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]
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On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Dave Crozier <DaveC@flexipol.co.uk> wrote:
> Sorry to bring this old chestnut up again but now we are "two" here (myself and Tom) at Flexipol it has become very clear that we need some sort of versioning software for VFP 9 and I am wondering what is the current flavour of the day with you folks out there.
Anything is better than nothing.
> Obviously Visual SourceSafe is available but I must admit to having mixed feelings about it after using it in VFP 6 days after the database became corrupted and we couldn't access any versions of the source code never mind the older revision so I will take council on its use. We have MSDN so the latest Team Foundation is available but I must admit t knowing diddly squat about it!
I wrote a book about my decade of experience with SourceSafe, and the
means to safely maintain and repair large databases. The book didn't
make the Best Seller Lists, but a few corporations paid me handsomely
to do what I outlined in the book. SourceSafe was one of the best
source code control programs of the 80s.
I wouldn't advise using it today, despite the tightly-coupled
functionality it offers in VFP, one that few people have gotten to
work correctly.
Distributed version control systems (DVCS) means that each workstation
has access to all of the source code in the master repository, so you
can work on your laptop or workstation whilst disconnected from the
network. It also means there is no "single point of failure" -- one
machine going down will not break your source code. Typically, you
share changes by publishing from your local machine to an agree-upon
"master" repository. You can have one or several of these, if you like
to push code from development to test to QA to staging to production,
that's supported.
The biggest advantage of the new generation of DVCS is the recognition
that merging is a normal, day-to-day operation and not a crisis. You
branch your code base to try an experiment. You abandon your code, or
you merge your changes back into the master branch of code. You
support several versions of your app, and can switch between them to
troubleshoot client issues. You "stash" away a chunk of code you're
working on when you need to work on something else.
There are several popular DVCS systems, commercial and Open Source. I
strongly prefer the latter.
Git is my DVCS of choice, mainly because I've invested the most effort
in learning it, and because it is the primary DVCS of Ruby, where I
spend most of my time these days. There are good books, videos and
tutorials available. It is worth investing the time in learning it, as
your ability to rescue old code, save a client with a problem, or save
your business might depend on it.
Mercurial is another similar system, hg for short, more popular in the
Python community. Bazaar is a third. I'm not qualified to speak to the
differences between the three in any detail, other than to say great
software is successfully maintained on each, so I don't think you'd go
wrong with any of them.
VFP stores much of its source in binary DBF formats, and these are not
very source-code friendly. There are a number of nice two-way
conversions from binary to text, several of which have already been
mentioned on this thread.
You can host all of your source code yourself, or you can off-load
that to a commercial provider. GitHub has done a fine job promoting
themselves as the center of all things, and they really have built a
fine web site with many extra features on top of the Git engine.
BitBucket is another vendor skilled in self-promotion. Their offerings
are not as extensive as GitHub, but their pricing is more competitive.
There are literally dozens of other vendors offering a range of
hosting plans and prices.
I hope this gives you some clues on what questions to consider next.
--
Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
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What Ted said. Plus the observation that all Python projects I've come across have used git, not hg.
And that gitlab and gitorious are two github-like projects that allow self hosting for no cost.
Paul
> On Feb 24, 2015, at 7:01, Ted Roche <tedroche@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Dave Crozier <DaveC@flexipol.co.uk> wrote:
>> Sorry to bring this old chestnut up again but now we are "two" here (myself and Tom) at Flexipol it has become very clear that we need some sort of versioning software for VFP 9 and I am wondering what is the current flavour of the day with you folks out there.
>
> Anything is better than nothing.
>
>> Obviously Visual SourceSafe is available but I must admit to having mixed feelings about it after using it in VFP 6 days after the database became corrupted and we couldn't access any versions of the source code never mind the older revision so I will take council on its use. We have MSDN so the latest Team Foundation is available but I must admit t knowing diddly squat about it!
>
> I wrote a book about my decade of experience with SourceSafe, and the
> means to safely maintain and repair large databases. The book didn't
> make the Best Seller Lists, but a few corporations paid me handsomely
> to do what I outlined in the book. SourceSafe was one of the best
> source code control programs of the 80s.
>
> I wouldn't advise using it today, despite the tightly-coupled
> functionality it offers in VFP, one that few people have gotten to
> work correctly.
>
> Distributed version control systems (DVCS) means that each workstation
> has access to all of the source code in the master repository, so you
> can work on your laptop or workstation whilst disconnected from the
> network. It also means there is no "single point of failure" -- one
> machine going down will not break your source code. Typically, you
> share changes by publishing from your local machine to an agree-upon
> "master" repository. You can have one or several of these, if you like
> to push code from development to test to QA to staging to production,
> that's supported.
>
> The biggest advantage of the new generation of DVCS is the recognition
> that merging is a normal, day-to-day operation and not a crisis. You
> branch your code base to try an experiment. You abandon your code, or
> you merge your changes back into the master branch of code. You
> support several versions of your app, and can switch between them to
> troubleshoot client issues. You "stash" away a chunk of code you're
> working on when you need to work on something else.
>
> There are several popular DVCS systems, commercial and Open Source. I
> strongly prefer the latter.
>
> Git is my DVCS of choice, mainly because I've invested the most effort
> in learning it, and because it is the primary DVCS of Ruby, where I
> spend most of my time these days. There are good books, videos and
> tutorials available. It is worth investing the time in learning it, as
> your ability to rescue old code, save a client with a problem, or save
> your business might depend on it.
>
> Mercurial is another similar system, hg for short, more popular in the
> Python community. Bazaar is a third. I'm not qualified to speak to the
> differences between the three in any detail, other than to say great
> software is successfully maintained on each, so I don't think you'd go
> wrong with any of them.
>
> VFP stores much of its source in binary DBF formats, and these are not
> very source-code friendly. There are a number of nice two-way
> conversions from binary to text, several of which have already been
> mentioned on this thread.
>
> You can host all of your source code yourself, or you can off-load
> that to a commercial provider. GitHub has done a fine job promoting
> themselves as the center of all things, and they really have built a
> fine web site with many extra features on top of the Git engine.
> BitBucket is another vendor skilled in self-promotion. Their offerings
> are not as extensive as GitHub, but their pricing is more competitive.
> There are literally dozens of other vendors offering a range of
> hosting plans and prices.
>
> I hope this gives you some clues on what questions to consider next.
>
> --
> Ted Roche
> Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
>
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As I've said before, I gave Mercurial a try and was extremely impressed. I'm not using it right now because I have no active programming projects, but I wouldn't even consider anything but Git or Mercurial for the job, especially in comparison to an antique like SourceSafe.
I especially liked the Tortoise UI (versions available for both Git and Mercurial). They patch Windows Explorer so you get little green dots in Detail view beside files that are saved, which change to red if you've updated it without committing it yet. Really nice.
This is VERY mature software - I tried lots of things I didn't understand very well, but nothing that didn't work. A couple of key plusses:
+ There is no Master Control regulating what you can and can't do. You don't have to log in to some remote storage to commit changes. You can (and I did) simply designate the master to be a sub-folder of my project folder - everything worked like a charm. When I moved my project to my laptop (for a little road work) the master went along for the ride.
No problem, because I can decide whenever I want to whether to merge the two forks, leave them split, or just adopt one and abandon the other. It's just so easy to do what you want to do.
+ I didn't really see any problem with the dreaded 'object files' of a VFP application. Yes, an SCX/SCT combo isn't all text, and displaying the lines that are different is a bit hard to read, but it does show you which files have changed and what the changes are. If you have my habit of adding dated comment lines describing the changes in a "zreadme" method, they they kind of pop out at you and who needs to look at the binary/FXP code?
+ These guys are FREE!!! It will take you about a half hour to download one and give it a try. Quit analyzing the rumor mill and become your own first-hand authority.
I agree with Paul that the weight of market share seems to have swung to Git. But they both work, and the price is right.
Good luck. I'm sure you'll be pleased.
Dan
> Subject: Re: Source Code Version Control
> From: paul@mcnettware.com
> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 08:32:27 -0800
> To: profoxtech@leafe.com
>
> What Ted said. Plus the observation that all Python projects I've come across have used git, not hg.
>
> And that gitlab and gitorious are two github-like projects that allow self hosting for no cost.
>
> Paul
>
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