>

>

> Message: 3

> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:59:01 -0800

> From: John Fabiani <johnf@jfcomputer.com>

> To: Dabo Users list <dabo-users@leafe.com>

> Subject: Re: [dabo-users] Questions and Assunptions (Ed Leafe)

> Message-ID: <2409964.zgnzxs8o8I@linux-12>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> On Monday, November 21, 2011 09:24:23 PM Sayth Renshaw wrote:

> > thank you ed I was hoping that was going to be the case. I have been

> > looking at the docs and a few of he screencasts, Dabo seems to have a lot

> > more capability than one might initially expect looking at the site.

>

> This is off topic - but what information do you believe was missing from

> the

> Dabo website?

>

> Johnf

>

>

>

Not sure if 'missing' is the right word.The one immediate thing that

stands out though is the beginners tutorial, its not missing just not

obvious. The dabo wiki has a great design and layout. My assumption is that

the beginners tutorial is about a third the way down the pycon 2010

introduction.

So its not missing but would be great to be more obvious and in the wiki

format. Then it could be slightly fleshed out, only slightly so it clearly

demonstrates how to use the dabo editor and tools runs through create the

sample application and then has an obvious clear next steps.

Whilst I am good at writing these things I don't know dabo well enough(at

all currently) to achieve it.

Sayth

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> > This is off topic - but what information do you believe was missing from

> > the

> > Dabo website?

> >

> > Johnf

>

> Not sure if 'missing' is the right word.The one immediate thing that

> stands out though is the beginners tutorial, its not missing just not

> obvious. The dabo wiki has a great design and layout. My assumption is that

> the beginners tutorial is about a third the way down the pycon 2010

> introduction.

>

> So its not missing but would be great to be more obvious and in the wiki

> format. Then it could be slightly fleshed out, only slightly so it clearly

> demonstrates how to use the dabo editor and tools runs through create the

> sample application and then has an obvious clear next steps.

>

> Whilst I am good at writing these things I don't know dabo well enough(at

> all currently) to achieve it.

>

> Sayth

OK I think I understand. Thanks for your input.

Johnf

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I like to comment on this, too. I started to use dabo some time ago, with the sole reason that I needed a database for scientific literature and none of the available free tools could do what I needed. I am not an experienced programmer, but I have always been able to script my way around with visual basic or perl, and I started to use python because it seems to be more natural than other languages.

I ended up to use dabo, because the tutorial example with the recipe database is quite similar to what I needed, so I figured if I just followed the tutorial and make the necessary adjustments, I would end up with what I need. However, things were not as easy as I anticipated. I started to do try my own database using the application wizard, and it always crashed with the m:m checkboxes. I then followed the instructions in the manual step-by-step to just reproduce the recipe database, but it still crashed. I then watched some of the screencasts and tried my luck with the form designer, but also failed. I then figured out that there may be some problem with the python version I am using (Python 2.7 on 64bit Win7), because once I installed the dabo runtime, the code worked as it should.

I still was not able to populate a drop down window from a database table. ( I tried to follow the discussion that was linked in the wiki, but I did not manage to get it done). In the end I hard-coded my options in the edit page, so I ended up with something that works for me, and I am very happy and grateful for dabo.

But as someone who is not an experienced programmer (more or less a beginner) the available documentation is difficult to follow, in several regards: Once I got stuck with the application wizard, I found a discussion in the list archive about whether ot not the application wizard is obsolete or not. (That was not encouraging).

I tried to follow the form designer in the screencast, but at an quite early state the screencast shows the definition of the bizobjects in the code window, but the current version of the tool places these definition somewhere else, where I did not find them. This is explained somewhere on the website, bit only if know where to look you can find it. Before that it can be quite discouraging. The seemingly simple task of how to populate a drop-down list from the database is explained by a reference to a post that is only part of a discussion on the topic, so as a beginner one has to be quite persistent to get some results...

I then signed up for the mailing list, but most of the discussions are way above me...

The pycon tutorial with the recipe database is a really good piece of documentation and the reason I started to use dabo. What I would like most would be if the tutorial examples would be expanded to illustrate additional techniques, since I usually can work my way up from code examples, but I consistently fail to apply things like object definitions on my own.

Actually, I am so grateful that with dabo I could get what I needed, that I would be willing to help with the tutorials myself, but as the author of the last post, I have to admit that there is no knowledge that I could turn into a tutorial yet. And please excuse the lenghty explanation...

best regards

Soeren

-------- Original-Nachricht --------

> Datum: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 06:49:30 -0800

> Von: John Fabiani <johnf@jfcomputer.com>

> An: Dabo Users list <dabo-users@leafe.com>

> Betreff: Re: [dabo-users] Dabo-users Digest, Vol 89, Issue 17

>

> > > This is off topic - but what information do you believe was missing

> from

> > > the

> > > Dabo website?

> > >

> > > Johnf

> >

> > Not sure if 'missing' is the right word.The one immediate thing that

> > stands out though is the beginners tutorial, its not missing just not

> > obvious. The dabo wiki has a great design and layout. My assumption is

> that

> > the beginners tutorial is about a third the way down the pycon 2010

> > introduction.

> >

> > So its not missing but would be great to be more obvious and in the wiki

> > format. Then it could be slightly fleshed out, only slightly so it

> clearly

> > demonstrates how to use the dabo editor and tools runs through create

> the

> > sample application and then has an obvious clear next steps.

> >

> > Whilst I am good at writing these things I don't know dabo well

> enough(at

> > all currently) to achieve it.

> >

> > Sayth

>

> OK I think I understand. Thanks for your input.

>

> Johnf

>

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Hi Soeren,

> Actually, I am so grateful that with dabo I could get what I needed, that I would be willing to help with the tutorials

> myself, but as the author of the last post, I have to admit that there is no knowledge that I could turn into a tutorial

> yet. And please excuse the lenghty explanation...

I agree with the sentiment - in fact, I had planned on writing a bunch

of documentation myself, but got busy with a bunch of actual work I

had to do, never got around to it. That was a few years ago!

It seems to always be the case for projects that are done without a

lot of funding - the people investing their time are working on making

the product better, and don't have the time (or the desire!) to do

documentation.

--

# p.d.

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On Tuesday, November 22, 2011 09:30:34 PM de_222_db@gmx.de wrote:

> I like to comment on this, too. I started to use dabo some time ago, with

> the sole reason that I needed a database for scientific literature and none

> of the available free tools could do what I needed. I am not an experienced

> programmer, but I have always been able to script my way around with visual

> basic or perl, and I started to use python because it seems to be more

> natural than other languages.

>

> I ended up to use dabo, because the tutorial example with the recipe

> database is quite similar to what I needed, so I figured if I just followed

> the tutorial and make the necessary adjustments, I would end up with what I

> need. However, things were not as easy as I anticipated. I started to do

> try my own database using the application wizard, and it always crashed

> with the m:m checkboxes. I then followed the instructions in the manual

> step-by-step to just reproduce the recipe database, but it still crashed. I

> then watched some of the screencasts and tried my luck with the form

> designer, but also failed. I then figured out that there may be some

> problem with the python version I am using (Python 2.7 on 64bit Win7),

> because once I installed the dabo runtime, the code worked as it should.

>

> I still was not able to populate a drop down window from a database table. (

> I tried to follow the discussion that was linked in the wiki, but I did not

> manage to get it done). In the end I hard-coded my options in the edit

> page, so I ended up with something that works for me, and I am very happy

> and grateful for dabo.

>

> But as someone who is not an experienced programmer (more or less a

> beginner) the available documentation is difficult to follow, in several

> regards: Once I got stuck with the application wizard, I found a discussion

> in the list archive about whether ot not the application wizard is obsolete

> or not. (That was not encouraging). I tried to follow the form designer in

> the screencast, but at an quite early state the screencast shows the

> definition of the bizobjects in the code window, but the current version of

> the tool places these definition somewhere else, where I did not find them.

> This is explained somewhere on the website, bit only if know where to look

> you can find it. Before that it can be quite discouraging. The seemingly

> simple task of how to populate a drop-down list from the database is

> explained by a reference to a post that is only part of a discussion on the

> topic, so as a beginner one has to be quite persistent to get some

> results...

>

> I then signed up for the mailing list, but most of the discussions are way

> above me...

>

> The pycon tutorial with the recipe database is a really good piece of

> documentation and the reason I started to use dabo. What I would like most

> would be if the tutorial examples would be expanded to illustrate

> additional techniques, since I usually can work my way up from code

> examples, but I consistently fail to apply things like object definitions

> on my own.

>

> Actually, I am so grateful that with dabo I could get what I needed, that I

> would be willing to help with the tutorials myself, but as the author of

> the last post, I have to admit that there is no knowledge that I could turn

> into a tutorial yet. And please excuse the lenghty explanation...

>

> best regards

>

> Soeren

I agree with you. As a member of the Dabo group for the last few years (yet I

don't believe I know everything by a long shot) I too have had trouble finding

information on the website.

The question has been approched in the past and we have tried to improve the

situation (apparently without much success). That said we need a better way

to get the newbie up and running.

The two general issues are:

1. Installing Dabo.

2. Using Dabo tools.

Installing Dabo has been addressed by providing a simple install of Dabo that

includes all the required lib's, etc.. That too has issues. The stable Dabo

is often way behind what is available via the SVN. An attempt to address the

update was made by Ed who provided a web update tool. But that too requires

maintainence. Keeping up with the Dabo changes takes effort and time.

IMO the best is to use SVN and setup a 'pth' file. That requires that the

user understands how to install a SVN client, can also install python - along

with all the required lib's. So as you can see that might be a very large

learning curve for a newbie.

I have considered adding more info for the install of Dabo. But I always come

away thinking that it almost impossible to get everything covered with all the

differences between the platforms, versions of OS's, etc.

Tools on the other hand were addressed by tutorials and some screencast.

Today the some of the screencast are outdated and the tutorial has had limited

success.

Recently, Ed asked on his G+ account for suggestions on how documentation

might be better addressed. To my knowledge he did not get anything that

provided much of an insight to providing better doc's. I didn't provide much

either.

Just providing a few new screencast isn't a complete answer either. We have a

number of non english speaking users that attempt to use Dabo. That said, I

think it would at least help. I have been using Linux for the last few years

and never did figure out how to create a screencast using Linux. Maybe, my

new 12.1 will provide me an easy way to get that done. If so I try to update

some of the screencast.

BTW anything discussed on the list is open to questions from newbies. "A

Question not asked is a door not opened". I'm sure most of us are willing to

take the time to help others as long as they take the time.

So here's my offer - I'll help any newbie get up and running within my limited

time.

Johnf

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