Index
2011-09-22 12:03 – Ed Leafe : [NF] For those interested in Big Data
2011-09-22 13:07 – Dan Covill : Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data
2011-09-22 13:19 – Ed Leafe : Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data
2011-09-22 14:01 – <kamcginnis@gmail.com>: Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data
2011-09-22 14:33 – Paul McNett : Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data
2011-09-24 09:15 – Malcolm Greene : Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data
2011-09-24 09:36 – Stephen Russell : Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data
2011-09-24 17:55 – Dan Covill : Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data
2011-09-25 01:24 – Ajit Abraham : Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data
2011-09-25 19:41 – Dave Crozier : RE: [NF] For those interested in Big Data
Back to top
[NF] For those interested in Big Data

Author: Ed Leafe

Posted: 2011-09-22 12:03:22   Link

Cassandra 1.0, the cloud, and the future of big data

http://www.rackspace.com/cloud/blog/2011/09/21/cassandra-1-0-the-cloud-and-the-future-of-big-data/?cm_mmc=blog-_-cassandra-_-cloud-_-9212011

( -or- http://j.mp/qPyuOL )

-- Ed Leafe

_______________________________________________

Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com

Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox

OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech

Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox

This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/73BD4917-C23E-4886-BD09-E2156ADA4D71@leafe.com

** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

©2011 Ed Leafe
Back to top
Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data

Author: Dan Covill

Posted: 2011-09-22 13:07:38   Link

On 09/22/11 09:03, Ed Leafe wrote:

> Cassandra 1.0, the cloud, and the future of big data

>

> http://www.rackspace.com/cloud/blog/2011/09/21/cassandra-1-0-the-cloud-and-the-future-of-big-data/?cm_mmc=blog-_-cassandra-_-cloud-_-9212011

>

> ( -or- http://j.mp/qPyuOL )

>

> -- Ed Leafe

Wow! That's the most new terms I had to look up since the MS press

release for Win 8.

Kind of makes my head hurt, but I do see the problem.

Dan Covill

_______________________________________________

Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com

Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox

OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech

Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox

This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4E7B6B5A.1040109@san.rr.com

** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

©2011 Dan Covill
Back to top
Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data

Author: Ed Leafe

Posted: 2011-09-22 13:19:52   Link

On Sep 22, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Dan Covill wrote:

> Wow! That's the most new terms I had to look up since the MS press

> release for Win 8.

It took me several days of working with Cassandra until I could wrap my head around it. I have been working with data in relational sets for so long that the notion of working with a non-relational database seemed like reading Chinese. But I'm happy to say that I picked it up much faster than I would have become fluent in Chinese!

Non-relational data is not better or worse than relational - it's simply solving a different type of problem with a different approach.

-- Ed Leafe

_______________________________________________

Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com

Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox

OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech

Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox

This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/2CF328B0-0FEB-4C0A-A985-67D761EEE764@leafe.com

** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

©2011 Ed Leafe
Back to top
Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data

Author: <kamcginnis@gmail.com>

Posted: 2011-09-22 14:01:58   Link

It will be interesting to see how this progresses. I noticed in the link you sent that Facebook has 50TB and ebay has

2PB.

A long time ago there were some messages in this newsgroup about storing images in a field in the data table. The

consensus (I think) was that you should not do that. You should only store a pointer to a file on the disk with your

image or other very large file. The difference in this and NoSQL is that you can only find the file by whatever you used

in the data table to point to the file. NoSQL seems to be a way to search in the folder where you store the large files?

I would be interested to know how they do that. I don't see any specifics in those links.

Our company has had a EHR (electronic healthcare record) for years, but we recommend that the doctor store a simple note

like those in a paper chart. We definitely do not recommend trying to store scanned images (tiff or pdf, etc) or

pictures (jpg, etc). At this time we partnered with a company x-link.info to link our database to many 'certified' EHR

programs. To be 'certified' those EHR programs must store lab tests, x-rays, etc. For a small internal medicine group of

doctors (3-8 for example) that might be many terabytes for 7 years of data. How would you backup 7 TB data? If this new

healthcare bills survives the constitutional test, it might create a lot of work for companies that have 'server farms'

----- Original Message -----

From: "Ed Leafe" <ed@leafe.com>

To: "ProFox Email List" <profox@leafe.com>

Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:19 AM

Subject: Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data

On Sep 22, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Dan Covill wrote:

> Wow! That's the most new terms I had to look up since the MS press

> release for Win 8.

It took me several days of working with Cassandra until I could wrap my head around it. I have been working with data in

relational sets for so long that the notion of working with a non-relational database seemed like reading Chinese. But

I'm happy to say that I picked it up much faster than I would have become fluent in Chinese!

Non-relational data is not better or worse than relational - it's simply solving a different type of problem with a

different approach.

-- Ed Leafe

[excessive quoting removed by server]

_______________________________________________

Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com

Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox

OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech

Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox

This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/033701cc7951$b93e1ff0$7a00a8c0@w2k3s02

** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

©2011 <kamcginnis@gmail.com>
Back to top
Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data

Author: Paul McNett

Posted: 2011-09-22 14:33:35   Link

On 9/22/11 11:01 AM, kamcginnis@gmail.com wrote:

> NoSQL seems to be a way to search in the folder where you store the large files?

> I would be interested to know how they do that. I don't see any specifics in those links.

I think most people just store the image data, video data, whatever, as a node in the

database. You want to limit the number of things to search for and pulling the

pointer from the database and then the file from the filesystem wouldn't be as fast

as just pulling the blob from the db to begin with.

Paul

_______________________________________________

Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com

Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox

OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech

Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox

This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4E7B7F7F.5060009@ulmcnett.com

** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

©2011 Paul McNett
Back to top
Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data

Author: Malcolm Greene

Posted: 2011-09-24 09:15:36   Link

Paul,

> I think most people just store the image data, video data, whatever, as a node in the database. You want to limit the number of things to search for and pulling the pointer from the database and then the file from the filesystem wouldn't be as fast as just pulling the blob from the db to begin with.

I respectfully disagree with your position. There was a recent thread on

the SQLite mailing list that included some benchmarks that argued

against use of blobs for storing files. While much of the discussion was

SQLite specific, I think that many of the principles would also apply to

other databases.

Some generic reasons to store files outside of a database include the

ability to use lower cost/speed file systems for file storage, faster

database backups, and faster database maintenance activities when

schemas change. Also much less database fragmentation.

The only reason I can think to store files inside a database is for

convenience, eg. having a single container for all your data.

Curious to hear other opinions on this topic.

Malcolm

_______________________________________________

Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com

Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox

OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech

Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox

This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1316870136.3146.140258147237085@webmail.messagingengine.com

** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

©2011 Malcolm Greene
Back to top
Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data

Author: Stephen Russell

Posted: 2011-09-24 09:36:33   Link

On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Malcolm Greene <profox@bdurham.com> wrote:

> Paul,

>

>> I think most people just store the image data, video data, whatever, as a node in the database. You want to limit the number of things to search for and pulling the pointer from the database and then the file from the filesystem wouldn't be as fast as just pulling the blob from the db to begin with.

>

> I respectfully disagree with your position. There was a recent thread on

> the SQLite mailing list that included some benchmarks that argued

> against use of blobs for storing files. While much of the discussion was

> SQLite specific, I think that many of the principles would also apply to

> other databases.

>

> Some generic reasons to store files outside of a database include the

> ability to use lower cost/speed file systems for file storage, faster

> database backups, and faster database maintenance activities when

> schemas change. Also much less database fragmentation.

>

> The only reason I can think to store files inside a database is for

> convenience, eg. having a single container for all your data.

---------------

I think HIPAA rules state that you have to keep the image in a secure

fashion, more about the alteration and loss of images to a patient as

well as who did any of it. All that distills down to the storage of

images in the db and that one table is usually the PIG in the db in

size. When I was a db for a EMR company one client had an 800 gig

table for images alone.

That made restore the hard time to overcome.

When that big client left I think they took the storage to Racker county.

--

Stephen Russell

Unified Health Services

60 Germantown Court

Suite 220

Cordova, TN 38018

Telephone: 888.510.2667

901.246-0159 cell

_______________________________________________

Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com

Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox

OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech

Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox

This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/CAJidMY+OSQtHkCUy1_2xWi2TrzByGecDOOEtWfUkWvOCGCRUQQ@mail.gmail.com

** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

©2011 Stephen Russell
Back to top
Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data

Author: Dan Covill

Posted: 2011-09-24 17:55:05   Link

On 09/24/11 06:15, Malcolm Greene wrote:

> I respectfully disagree with your position. There was a recent thread on

> the SQLite mailing list that included some benchmarks that argued

> against use of blobs for storing files. While much of the discussion was

> SQLite specific, I think that many of the principles would also apply to

> other databases.

Since SQLite is stored in a single file (like Access!), I'd expect

storing blobs in the DB to be inefficient. But that's SQLITE. Other DB

structures may have very different results.

> Some generic reasons to store files outside of a database include the

> ability to use lower cost/speed file systems for file storage, faster

> database backups, and faster database maintenance activities when

> schemas change. Also much less database fragmentation.

>

> The only reason I can think to store files inside a database is for

> convenience, eg. having a single container for all your data.

I submit that another very good reason to store files inside a database

is to be sure they're there when you want to read them! If your DB has

only a file name, you have to do something else to ensure that that file

name will continue to exist. In most cases that 'something' looks

pretty much like part of the database - i.e., same server, same main

folder, same Administrator, etc.

For VFP, I would agree it's usually better if they're outside the .DBF

itself, but that may well not be true for SQL Server or Oracle. And I

suspect it's definitely NOT true for BigTable or Cassandra.

Dan Covill

San Diego

_______________________________________________

Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com

Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox

OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech

Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox

This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4E7E51B9.5060504@san.rr.com

** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

©2011 Dan Covill
Back to top
Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data

Author: Ajit Abraham

Posted: 2011-09-25 01:24:53   Link

> Since SQLite is stored in a single file (like Access!), I'd expect

> storing blobs in the DB to be inefficient. But that's SQLITE. Other DB

> structures may have very different results.

SQL Server has FileStream for the best of both the worlds

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb933993.aspx

http://tinyurl.com/2bpyrsn

_Ajit Abraham

_______________________________________________

Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com

Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox

OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech

Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox

This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4E7EBB25.3090306@ua-group.com

** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

©2011 Ajit Abraham
Back to top
RE: [NF] For those interested in Big Data

Author: Dave Crozier

Posted: 2011-09-25 19:41:42   Link

Malcolm,

Been there, done that in terms of storing outside the database. Fine when it

is small amount of data but a nightmare from a security point of view with

large amounts of data.

We moved soma 600Gb of scanned & audio files from a VFP database (stored

only a link to the file) because of thise. Unfortunately if your folder

structure gets fouled up or slow to access say because you have more than

about 5,000 files in a folder then it totally screws you. Also people are

tempted to meddle with data in folders and a simple inadvertand rename of a

folder or file can render your data useless.

Now at least I sleep knowing the data is safe in SQL Server and is being

mirrored, snapshot and replicated without me doing anything. Also access is

of course quick and doesn't degrade. Currently the initial 600Gb has

increased to over 3Tb as the amount of paperwork has been reduced in the

company and it still runs as fast. Also, nobody can get at it from a

security point of view without knowing how to access SQL, so our company

security auditors are happy.

Dave

-----Original Message-----

From: profox-bounces@leafe.com [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf

Of Malcolm Greene

Sent: 24 September 2011 14:16

To: profox@leafe.com

Subject: Re: [NF] For those interested in Big Data

Paul,

> I think most people just store the image data, video data, whatever, as a

node in the database. You want to limit the number of things to search for

and pulling the pointer from the database and then the file from the

filesystem wouldn't be as fast as just pulling the blob from the db to begin

with.

I respectfully disagree with your position. There was a recent thread on

the SQLite mailing list that included some benchmarks that argued

against use of blobs for storing files. While much of the discussion was

SQLite specific, I think that many of the principles would also apply to

other databases.

Some generic reasons to store files outside of a database include the

ability to use lower cost/speed file systems for file storage, faster

database backups, and faster database maintenance activities when

schemas change. Also much less database fragmentation.

The only reason I can think to store files inside a database is for

convenience, eg. having a single container for all your data.

Curious to hear other opinions on this topic.

Malcolm

[excessive quoting removed by server]

_______________________________________________

Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com

Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox

OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech

Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox

This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/000301cc7bdc$adfca8e0$09f5faa0$@co.uk

** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.

©2011 Dave Crozier