Hi Everybody,
http://article.nationalreview.com/430816/if-we-europeanize-europe-is-in-trouble/jonah-goldberg
(exerpt)
To be fair, liberals insist conservatives are wrong to think that
Europeanizing America will necessarily come at any significant cost. New
York Times columnist and Princeton economist Paul Krugman says that, in
exchange for only a tiny bit less growth, Europeans buy a whole lot of
security and comfort. Economists such as Stanford
Who's going to protect Europe when we can no longer afford to? Who's going to fund the UN when we no longer can afford to? Who's going to fund NATO when we can no longer afford to? Who's going to deliver aid after natural disasters when we can no longer afford to?
Pull the troops from Europe and let them defend themselves.
--- On Fri, 4/9/10, Pete Theisen <petetheisen@verizon.net> wrote:
> From: Pete Theisen <petetheisen@verizon.net>
> Subject: [OT] End of Europe's free ride?
> To: "ProFox Email List" <profox@leafe.com>
> Date: Friday, April 9, 2010, 9:24 PM
> Hi Everybody,
>
> http://article.nationalreview.com/430816/if-we-europeanize-europe-is-in-trouble/jonah-goldberg
>
> (exerpt)
>
> To be fair, liberals insist conservatives are wrong to
> think that
> Europeanizing America will necessarily come at any
> significant cost. New
> York Times columnist and Princeton economist Paul Krugman
> says that, in
> exchange for only a tiny bit less growth, Europeans buy a
> whole lot of
> security and comfort. Economists such as Stanford’s
> Michael Boskin say
> Europeans have a standard of living about 30 percent lower
> than ours and
> are stagnating. Others note that the structural
> unemployment rate in
> Europe, particularly for young people (it’s over 20
> percent in many
> countries), is socially devastating.
>
> Obviously, I’m in the conservative camp. But I think the
> debate misses
> something. We can’t become Europe unless someone else is
> willing to
> become America.
>
> Look at it this way. My seven-year-old daughter has a great
> lifestyle.
> She has all of her clothes and food bought for her. She
> goes on great
> vacations. She has plenty of leisure time. A day doesn’t
> go by where I
> don’t look at her and feel envious of how good she’s
> got it compared to
> me. But here’s the problem: If I decide to live like her,
> who’s going to
> take my place?
>
> Europe is a free-rider. It can only afford to be Europe
> because we can
> afford to be America.
>
> The most obvious and most cited illustration of this fact
> is national
> defense. Europe’s defense budgets have been miniscule
> because Europeans
> can count on Uncle Sam to protect them.
> --
> Regards,
>
> Pete
> http://elect-pete-theisen.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
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DOnt make the quaintly naive assumption that NATO is there solely to protect Europe. Americans are quite happy to fight wars as long as it is not on their soil or even close. So, fearing soviet expansionism they took up residence in Europe figuring that if a fight breaks out it can be in someone elses backyard. The other theory is that allowing USSR to take over Europe only makes them closeR to USA and better resourced. Again, not exactly an altruistic policy. I understand it and I respect it - as does Europe. But I am not that naive to believe that the USA's first priority is the protection of the world - or even its 2nd or 3rd priority. I work with the world as it actually IS, not the way you so naively view it.
-----Original Message-----
From: profox-bounces@leafe.com [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan
Sent: Saturday, 10 April 2010 2:18 PM
To: ProFox Email List
Subject: Re: [OT] End of Europe's free ride?
Who's going to protect Europe when we can no longer afford to? Who's going to fund the UN when we no longer can afford to? Who's going to fund NATO when we can no longer afford to? Who's going to deliver aid after natural disasters when we can no longer afford to?
Pull the troops from Europe and let them defend themselves.
--- On Fri, 4/9/10, Pete Theisen <petetheisen@verizon.net> wrote:
> From: Pete Theisen <petetheisen@verizon.net>
> Subject: [OT] End of Europe's free ride?
> To: "ProFox Email List" <profox@leafe.com>
> Date: Friday, April 9, 2010, 9:24 PM
> Hi Everybody,
>
> http://article.nationalreview.com/430816/if-we-europeanize-europe-is-in-trouble/jonah-goldberg
>
> (exerpt)
>
> To be fair, liberals insist conservatives are wrong to
> think that
> Europeanizing America will necessarily come at any
> significant cost. New
> York Times columnist and Princeton economist Paul Krugman
> says that, in
> exchange for only a tiny bit less growth, Europeans buy a
> whole lot of
> security and comfort. Economists such as Stanford’s
> Michael Boskin say
> Europeans have a standard of living about 30 percent lower
> than ours and
> are stagnating. Others note that the structural
> unemployment rate in
> Europe, particularly for young people (it’s over 20
> percent in many
> countries), is socially devastating.
>
> Obviously, I’m in the conservative camp. But I think the
> debate misses
> something. We can’t become Europe unless someone else is
> willing to
> become America.
>
> Look at it this way. My seven-year-old daughter has a great
> lifestyle.
> She has all of her clothes and food bought for her. She
> goes on great
> vacations. She has plenty of leisure time. A day doesn’t
> go by where I
> don’t look at her and feel envious of how good she’s
> got it compared to
> me. But here’s the problem: If I decide to live like her,
> who’s going to
> take my place?
>
> Europe is a free-rider. It can only afford to be Europe
> because we can
> afford to be America.
>
> The most obvious and most cited illustration of this fact
> is national
> defense. Europe’s defense budgets have been miniscule
> because Europeans
> can count on Uncle Sam to protect them.
> --
> Regards,
>
> Pete
> http://elect-pete-theisen.com/
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]
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How about Europe pay it's fair share?
--- On Sat, 4/10/10, geoff <datades@adam.com.au> wrote:
> From: geoff <datades@adam.com.au>
> Subject: RE: [OT] End of Europe's free ride?
> To: "'ProFox Email List'" <profox@leafe.com>
> Date: Saturday, April 10, 2010, 3:42 AM
> DOnt make the quaintly naive
> assumption that NATO is there solely to protect Europe.
> Americans are quite happy to fight wars as long as it is not
> on their soil or even close. So, fearing soviet expansionism
> they took up residence in Europe figuring that if a fight
> breaks out it can be in someone elses backyard. The other
> theory is that allowing USSR to take over Europe only makes
> them closeR to USA and better resourced. Again, not exactly
> an altruistic policy. I understand it and I respect it - as
> does Europe. But I am not that naive to believe that the
> USA's first priority is the protection of the world - or
> even its 2nd or 3rd priority. I work with the world as it
> actually IS, not the way you so naively view it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: profox-bounces@leafe.com
> [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com]
> On Behalf Of Michael Madigan
> Sent: Saturday, 10 April 2010 2:18 PM
> To: ProFox Email List
> Subject: Re: [OT] End of Europe's free ride?
>
> Who's going to protect Europe when we can no longer afford
> to? Who's going to fund the UN when we no longer can
> afford to? Who's going to fund NATO when we can no
> longer afford to? Who's going to deliver aid after
> natural disasters when we can no longer afford to?
>
> Pull the troops from Europe and let them defend
> themselves.
>
>
> --- On Fri, 4/9/10, Pete Theisen <petetheisen@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Pete Theisen <petetheisen@verizon.net>
> > Subject: [OT] End of Europe's free ride?
> > To: "ProFox Email List" <profox@leafe.com>
> > Date: Friday, April 9, 2010, 9:24 PM
> > Hi Everybody,
> >
> > http://article.nationalreview.com/430816/if-we-europeanize-europe-is-in-trouble/jonah-goldberg
> >
> > (exerpt)
> >
> > To be fair, liberals insist conservatives are wrong
> to
> > think that
> > Europeanizing America will necessarily come at any
> > significant cost. New
> > York Times columnist and Princeton economist Paul
> Krugman
> > says that, in
> > exchange for only a tiny bit less growth, Europeans
> buy a
> > whole lot of
> > security and comfort. Economists such as Stanford’s
> > Michael Boskin say
> > Europeans have a standard of living about 30 percent
> lower
> > than ours and
> > are stagnating. Others note that the structural
> > unemployment rate in
> > Europe, particularly for young people (it’s over 20
> > percent in many
> > countries), is socially devastating.
> >
> > Obviously, I’m in the conservative camp. But I think
> the
> > debate misses
> > something. We can’t become Europe unless someone
> else is
> > willing to
> > become America.
> >
> > Look at it this way. My seven-year-old daughter has a
> great
> > lifestyle.
> > She has all of her clothes and food bought for her.
> She
> > goes on great
> > vacations. She has plenty of leisure time. A day
> doesn’t
> > go by where I
> > don’t look at her and feel envious of how good
> she’s
> > got it compared to
> > me. But here’s the problem: If I decide to live like
> her,
> > who’s going to
> > take my place?
> >
> > Europe is a free-rider. It can only afford to be
> Europe
> > because we can
> > afford to be America.
> >
> > The most obvious and most cited illustration of this
> fact
> > is national
> > defense. Europe’s defense budgets have been
> miniscule
> > because Europeans
> > can count on Uncle Sam to protect them.
> > --
> > Regards,
> >
> > Pete
> > http://elect-pete-theisen.com/
> >
> [excessive quoting removed by server]
>
> _______________________________________________
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> the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or
> medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for
> those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
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NATO Budget by nations...
Country Civil Budget Military Budget Security & Investment Programme
Belgium 4 300 000 (2.7%) 25 500 000 (3.3%) 20 800 000 (4.5%)
Canada 8 800 000 (5.6%) 56 400 000 (6.5%) 18 400 000 (3.9%)
Denmark 2 500 000 (2.5%) 15 100 000 (1.9%) 16 800 000 (3.6%)
France 25 900 000 (16.5%) 33 300 000 (6.1%) 18 400 000 (3.9%)
Germany 24 500 000 (15.6%) 160 800 000 (18.0%) 115 600 000 (24.8%)
Greece 600 000 (0.4%) 3 800 000 (0.4%) 4 800 000 (1.0%)
Iceland 100 000 (0.1%) 300 000 (0.1%) 0 (0.0%)
Italy 9 100 000 (5.8%) 53 500 000 (6.9%) 38 400 000 (8.2%)
Luxembourg 100 000 (0.1%) 700 000 (0.1%) 800 000 (0.2%)
Netherlands 4 300 000 (2.7%) 26 200 000 (3.3%) 23 600 000 (5.1%)
Norway 1 700 000 (1.1%) 10 500 000 (1.3%) 14 000 000 (3.0%)
Portugal 1 000 000 (0.6%) 5 600 000 (0.7%) 1 600 000 (0.3%)
Spain 5 500 000 (3.5%) 5 300 000 (1.0%) 2 400 000 (0.5%)
Turkey 2 500 000 (1.6%) 13 700 000 (1.9%) 6 000 000 (1.3%)
UK 29 600 000 (18.8%) 111 300 000 (20.4%) 52 800 000 (11.3%)
US 36 523 000 (23.3%) 284 500 000 (28.0%) 132 000 000 (28.3%)
TOTAL 157 023 0001 806 500 000 466 400 000
GRAND TOTAL 1 429 923 000
-----Original Message-----
From: profox-bounces@leafe.com [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan
Sent: 10 April 2010 08:49
To: ProFox Email List
Subject: RE: [OT] End of Europe's free ride?
How about Europe pay it's fair share?
--- On Sat, 4/10/10, geoff <datades@adam.com.au> wrote:
> From: geoff <datades@adam.com.au>
> Subject: RE: [OT] End of Europe's free ride?
> To: "'ProFox Email List'" <profox@leafe.com>
> Date: Saturday, April 10, 2010, 3:42 AM
> DOnt make the quaintly naive
> assumption that NATO is there solely to protect Europe.
> Americans are quite happy to fight wars as long as it is not
> on their soil or even close. So, fearing soviet expansionism
> they took up residence in Europe figuring that if a fight
> breaks out it can be in someone elses backyard. The other
> theory is that allowing USSR to take over Europe only makes
> them closeR to USA and better resourced. Again, not exactly
> an altruistic policy. I understand it and I respect it - as
> does Europe. But I am not that naive to believe that the
> USA's first priority is the protection of the world - or
> even its 2nd or 3rd priority. I work with the world as it
> actually IS, not the way you so naively view it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: profox-bounces@leafe.com
> [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com]
> On Behalf Of Michael Madigan
> Sent: Saturday, 10 April 2010 2:18 PM
> To: ProFox Email List
> Subject: Re: [OT] End of Europe's free ride?
>
> Who's going to protect Europe when we can no longer afford
> to? Who's going to fund the UN when we no longer can
> afford to? Who's going to fund NATO when we can no
> longer afford to? Who's going to deliver aid after
> natural disasters when we can no longer afford to?
>
> Pull the troops from Europe and let them defend
> themselves.
>
>
> --- On Fri, 4/9/10, Pete Theisen <petetheisen@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Pete Theisen <petetheisen@verizon.net>
> > Subject: [OT] End of Europe's free ride?
> > To: "ProFox Email List" <profox@leafe.com>
> > Date: Friday, April 9, 2010, 9:24 PM
> > Hi Everybody,
> >
> > http://article.nationalreview.com/430816/if-we-europeanize-europe-is-in-trouble/jonah-goldberg
> >
> > (exerpt)
> >
> > To be fair, liberals insist conservatives are wrong
> to
> > think that
> > Europeanizing America will necessarily come at any
> > significant cost. New
> > York Times columnist and Princeton economist Paul
> Krugman
> > says that, in
> > exchange for only a tiny bit less growth, Europeans
> buy a
> > whole lot of
> > security and comfort. Economists such as Stanford’s
> > Michael Boskin say
> > Europeans have a standard of living about 30 percent
> lower
> > than ours and
> > are stagnating. Others note that the structural
> > unemployment rate in
> > Europe, particularly for young people (it’s over 20
> > percent in many
> > countries), is socially devastating.
> >
> > Obviously, I’m in the conservative camp. But I think
> the
> > debate misses
> > something. We can’t become Europe unless someone
> else is
> > willing to
> > become America.
> >
> > Look at it this way. My seven-year-old daughter has a
> great
> > lifestyle.
> > She has all of her clothes and food bought for her.
> She
> > goes on great
> > vacations. She has plenty of leisure time. A day
> doesn’t
> > go by where I
> > don’t look at her and feel envious of how good
> she’s
> > got it compared to
> > me. But here’s the problem: If I decide to live like
> her,
> > who’s going to
> > take my place?
> >
> > Europe is a free-rider. It can only afford to be
> Europe
> > because we can
> > afford to be America.
> >
> > The most obvious and most cited illustration of this
> fact
> > is national
> > defense. Europe’s defense budgets have been
> miniscule
> > because Europeans
> > can count on Uncle Sam to protect them.
> > --
> > Regards,
> >
> > Pete
> > http://elect-pete-theisen.com/
> >
> [excessive quoting removed by server]
>
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> the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or
> medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for
> those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
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geoff wrote:
> DOnt make the quaintly naive assumption that NATO is there solely to protect Europe. Americans are quite happy to fight wars as long as it is not on their soil or even close. So, fearing soviet expansionism they took up residence in Europe figuring that if a fight breaks out it can be in someone elses backyard. The other theory is that allowing USSR to take over Europe only makes them closeR to USA and better resourced. Again, not exactly an altruistic policy. I understand it and I respect it - as does Europe. But I am not that naive to believe that the USA's first priority is the protection of the world - or even its 2nd or 3rd priority. I work with the world as it actually IS, not the way you so naively view it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: profox-bounces@leafe.com [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Michael Madigan
> Sent: Saturday, 10 April 2010 2:18 PM
> To: ProFox Email List
> Subject: Re: [OT] End of Europe's free ride?
>
> Who's going to protect Europe when we can no longer afford to? Who's going to fund the UN when we no longer can afford to? Who's going to fund NATO when we can no longer afford to? Who's going to deliver aid after natural disasters when we can no longer afford to?
>
> Pull the troops from Europe and let them defend themselves.
>
With morons, the easiest way out if data.
http://www.betterworldcampaign.org/issues/funding/us-funding-for-the-un-an-overview.html
"""United States debt to the United Nations, in both the regular and
peacekeeping budgets, exceeded $1.5 billion at the start of 2009. By
far, the largest amount of debt is for peacekeeping, which is more than
$1.3 billion. These arrears make the United States the largest debtor to
the United Nations and threaten its ability to leverage the
international community toward achieving key U.S. national security
priorities"""
So it would seem that not only US is indebted to UN, but also that they
use UN to "leverage the international community toward achieving key
U.S. national security priorities". Hardly as nice as you portray you are.
>From the same site "Currently, the U.S. is assessed 22% of the UN
regular budget and 26% for UN peacekeeping operations.", so let's look
for the UN funding. Wikipedia is our friend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations
* United States <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States>* 22.00%
* Japan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan>* 16.624%
* Germany <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany>* 8.577%
* United Kingdom <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom>* 6.642%
* France <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France>* 6.301%
* Italy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy>* 5.079%
* Canada <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada>* 2.977%
* Spain <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain>* 2.968%
* China <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China>*
2.667%
* Mexico <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico>* 2.257%
*Other member states* 23.908%
If we add up Germany+UK+France+Spain we come up with a surprising
29.567% European funding.
So more bullshit falls apart when confronted to real data.
So PLEASE pull out of the whole world and leave us alone, we are just
fine thank you.
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This is something that americans don't seem to understand.
you can take care of everybody else UNTIL you reach a point where you
can't take care of yourself.
our debt to china and now apparently to the united nations should show
that we're well past that point and that it is time to reign in our
politicians and corporate executives by the short hairs.
On 4/10/2010 7:40 AM, Ricardo Ar
> Economists such as Stanford
What do we teach at stanford?
Dan Siciliano who I made a public challenge to and who never responded
also teaches at stanford
Seems like stanford is part of the problem, don't you think?
On 4/10/2010 8:17 AM, Jean Laeremans wrote:
>> Economists such as Stanford's Michael Boskin say Europeans have a standard of living about 30 percent lower than ours and
>> are stagnating.
>>
> ROFL.
>
>
> A+
> jml
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]
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Jean Laeremans wrote:
>> Economists such as Stanford