Index
2010-02-26 17:57 – Kurt Wendt : Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area
2010-02-27 09:16 – Virgil Bierschwale : RE: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area
2010-02-27 09:18 – Ed Leafe : Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area
2010-02-27 09:27 – Virgil Bierschwale : RE: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area
2010-02-27 10:52 – Stephen Russell : Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area
2010-02-27 14:33 – Lew : Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area
2010-02-27 14:51 – Ed Leafe : Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area
2010-02-27 15:36 – Lew : Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area
2010-02-27 15:51 – Ken Kixmoeller f/h : Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area
2010-02-27 16:00 – Virgil Bierschwale : RE: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area
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Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

Author: Kurt Wendt

Posted: 2010-02-26 17:57:30   Link

Hey folks,

I sure hope this kind of posting isn't against the rules here - as I

have NOT seen anyone YET post a message quite like this (even though I

have been on here for only a little over a year).

I've got over 20 years experience with FoxPro - from the early FoxBase+

to VFP9. And, I have worked on numerous applications - both as a

consultant and an employee.

The truth if - in the NYC Metro area - it seems that VFP type positions

have dwindled greatly over the past 10 years or so. Now to the point

that I almost never see any - although some are in the areas of Conn &

NJ. I live on LI - and I work in Manhattan - although I wouldn't mind

traveling to NJ or CT on a part time basis or as a consultant.

I'm currently looking for fulltime work - but, I am also considering

consulting again. As some of you have seen a couple of my prior posts -

obviously there are major issues at my current position - although I

will tread carefully in my statements (since I receive these ProFox

e-mails at work - although I am now subscribed from my home e-mail, from

whence this message has been initiated!).

So - if anybody knows of anything - I would be really appreciative! And,

if this kind of message is not quite appropriate here - sorry about

that. But, when pickins' are slim - some of us get a little desperate...

Thanks,

Kurt

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©2010 Kurt Wendt
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RE: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

Author: Virgil Bierschwale

Posted: 2010-02-27 09:16:52   Link

Hey Kurt,

Check this one out.

I applied for it, but haven't got called and it says you can work from

anywhere.

http://zolldata.iapplicants.com/ViewJob-40119.html

Speaking of working from anywhere, I decided last night it was time for me

to open my consulting business back up if I can find some gigs.

Doesn't even have to be development work as I'm quite good at finding the

needle in the haystack if you've been watching my articles on the GDP or

Wages in America and yes, I can still do development work as I have a EDI

type invoicing system that has been running for several years now that

processes invoices, converts them to a text file in the required format and

submits them to Siemens for payment.

More info can be found at the following link and the rates are comparable to

the offshore sweat shops

http://keepamericaatwork.com/?p=6785

Thanks,

Virgil

-----Original Message-----

From: profox-bounces@leafe.com [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf

Of Kurt Wendt

Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:58 PM

To: profox@leafe.com

Subject: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

Hey folks,

I sure hope this kind of posting isn't against the rules here - as I

have NOT seen anyone YET post a message quite like this (even though I

have been on here for only a little over a year).

I've got over 20 years experience with FoxPro - from the early FoxBase+

to VFP9. And, I have worked on numerous applications - both as a

consultant and an employee.

The truth if - in the NYC Metro area - it seems that VFP type positions

have dwindled greatly over the past 10 years or so. Now to the point

that I almost never see any - although some are in the areas of Conn &

NJ. I live on LI - and I work in Manhattan - although I wouldn't mind

traveling to NJ or CT on a part time basis or as a consultant.

I'm currently looking for fulltime work - but, I am also considering

consulting again. As some of you have seen a couple of my prior posts -

obviously there are major issues at my current position - although I

will tread carefully in my statements (since I receive these ProFox

e-mails at work - although I am now subscribed from my home e-mail, from

whence this message has been initiated!).

So - if anybody knows of anything - I would be really appreciative! And,

if this kind of message is not quite appropriate here - sorry about

that. But, when pickins' are slim - some of us get a little desperate...

Thanks,

Kurt

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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©2010 Virgil Bierschwale
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Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

Author: Ed Leafe

Posted: 2010-02-27 09:18:23   Link

On Feb 26, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Kurt Wendt wrote:

> The truth if - in the NYC Metro area - it seems that VFP type positions

> have dwindled greatly over the past 10 years or so. Now to the point

> that I almost never see any - although some are in the areas of Conn &

> NJ. I live on LI - and I work in Manhattan - although I wouldn't mind

> traveling to NJ or CT on a part time basis or as a consultant.

And that's not going to change, so I see two choices for you here: hope that you manage to land a long-term gig maintaining an existing Fox app, or add a new tool (or tools) to your toolbox. And before anyone thinks that this is going to turn into a plug for Dabo, it isn't: I think that the number of desktop app positions in general is plummeting, so your best bet is to learn how to create web apps.

In the web app arena, there are two main choices: stick with the Microsoft family of products, or learn "something else". If you stick with Microsoft products, you'll probably feel more at home initially, as everything is done with the sort of visual tools you're used to working with. You'll also be competing for work with a bunch of young whippersnappers who'll work for next to nothing, since that's the skillset they bring to the job.

I would recommend one of the Python web frameworks as an alternative. Look for jobs that want Django or Pylons or Web2Py experience to see what the demand is; LinkedIn and the Python Jobs Board (http://www.python.org/community/jobs/) are good places to start. Start playing with them to find which ones are easier to grasp, and to get a general feel for the approach to developing web apps.

-- Ed Leafe

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©2010 Ed Leafe
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RE: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

Author: Virgil Bierschwale

Posted: 2010-02-27 09:27:19   Link

Couldn't agree more with ed here.

I recently had the opportunity to do some .net work and it wasn't that

difficult once you found a source to answer a few questions and pinter.com

has a nice book on vfp to .net, but as ed said, most of the people I've seen

doing it don't have a combined 1 year experience between all of them and

when you mention things like a switch or whatever, they look at you like

you're from china or india and speaking of india or china, have you ever

looked at the billed rates on some of those short term project boards

(forget the name of them at the moment), but we're talking a few dollars per

hour.

But the biggest thing that bothers me with .net is that it is more about

learning their framework then it is about developing solutions, which is

fine, but what happens when their next whizbang widget generator framework

comes out?

Based on some of the things I've read here, if I can ever get enough work

going to allow me to focus, I'm seriously thinking about the dabo/python

stuff that ed has been talking about and now that oracle has bought out sun,

I see mysql cost's going way up to support his yachting habit, slowly at

first but dramatically later on.

-----Original Message-----

From: profox-bounces@leafe.com [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf

Of Ed Leafe

Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 8:18 AM

To: ProFox Email List

Subject: Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

On Feb 26, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Kurt Wendt wrote:

> The truth if - in the NYC Metro area - it seems that VFP type positions

> have dwindled greatly over the past 10 years or so. Now to the point

> that I almost never see any - although some are in the areas of Conn &

> NJ. I live on LI - and I work in Manhattan - although I wouldn't mind

> traveling to NJ or CT on a part time basis or as a consultant.

And that's not going to change, so I see two choices for you here:

hope that you manage to land a long-term gig maintaining an existing Fox

app, or add a new tool (or tools) to your toolbox. And before anyone thinks

that this is going to turn into a plug for Dabo, it isn't: I think that the

number of desktop app positions in general is plummeting, so your best bet

is to learn how to create web apps.

In the web app arena, there are two main choices: stick with the

Microsoft family of products, or learn "something else". If you stick with

Microsoft products, you'll probably feel more at home initially, as

everything is done with the sort of visual tools you're used to working

with. You'll also be competing for work with a bunch of young

whippersnappers who'll work for next to nothing, since that's the skillset

they bring to the job.

I would recommend one of the Python web frameworks as an

alternative. Look for jobs that want Django or Pylons or Web2Py experience

to see what the demand is; LinkedIn and the Python Jobs Board

(http://www.python.org/community/jobs/) are good places to start. Start

playing with them to find which ones are easier to grasp, and to get a

general feel for the approach to developing web apps.

-- Ed Leafe

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

Author: Stephen Russell

Posted: 2010-02-27 10:52:57   Link

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Virgil Bierschwale <vbiersch@ktc.com> wrote:

> Couldn't agree more with ed here.

>

> I recently had the opportunity to do some .net work and it wasn't that

> difficult once you found a source to answer a few questions and pinter.com

> has a nice book on vfp to .net, but as ed said, most of the people I've seen

> doing it don't have a combined 1 year experience between all of them and

> when you mention things like a switch or whatever, they look at you like

> you're from china or india and speaking of india or china, have you ever

> looked at the billed rates on some of those short term project boards

> (forget the name of them at the moment), but we're talking a few dollars per

> hour.

----------------------

Bull shit. Flat out lies here. So far from the truth.

There are a lot of companies that hire only top talent in programming.

No version of language here they are pros who are leading the team(s)

and they know they only want quality people. I know because last year

I was out looking.

There are thousands of gigs within the VS/.NET world that young

"freshers" are not working and could never get in. They have

experienced programmers that are very talented in writing .NET code.

Sorry but you VFPers who think you can jump over, it is NOT EASY to

switch your mindset to work with a different tool even if the IDE

looks similar.

Is there work? Well I see 2780 job posting here <http://durl.me/c8bw>

and that is just C#. Python has 659 <http://durl.me/c8cz>

Both are postings across the USA.

Now back to Ed's statement that you have to learn something new for

this decade. I have to agree 100%. Or are you going to retire when

the available work dries up?

> But the biggest thing that bothers me with .net is that it is more about

> learning their framework then it is about developing solutions, which is

> fine, but what happens when their next whizbang widget generator framework

> comes out?

--------------------------

Yes you have to learn HOW to do what you want to do. If you were to

work in java, python, or ruby you have to learn how to work with

collections, streamwriters, reading xml, testing. You will have to

learn about delegates, interfaces, etc and when to use them. There is

no easy fix except to learn it. That is why these young kids fresh

out of school are good because this is all they know. They have very

little experience in making an app. Requirements gathering and seeing

the final product. But when it comes to the academics of the language

they are in their prime.

--

Stephen Russell

Sr. Production Systems Programmer

CIMSgts

901.246-0159 cell

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Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

Author: Lew

Posted: 2010-02-27 14:33:31   Link

As a depressing addendum, I have a long term gig demising a large VFP app.

-----Original Message-----

From: Ed Leafe <ed@leafe.com>

Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:18:23

To: <profoxtech@leafe.com>

Subject: Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

On Feb 26, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Kurt Wendt wrote:

> The truth if - in the NYC Metro area - it seems that VFP type positions

> have dwindled greatly over the past 10 years or so. Now to the point

> that I almost never see any - although some are in the areas of Conn &

> NJ. I live on LI - and I work in Manhattan - although I wouldn't mind

> traveling to NJ or CT on a part time basis or as a consultant.

And that's not going to change, so I see two choices for you here: hope that you manage to land a long-term gig maintaining an existing Fox app, or add a new tool (or tools) to your toolbox. And before anyone thinks that this is going to turn into a plug for Dabo, it isn't: I think that the number of desktop app positions in general is plummeting, so your best bet is to learn how to create web apps.

In the web app arena, there are two main choices: stick with the Microsoft family of products, or learn "something else". If you stick with Microsoft products, you'll probably feel more at home initially, as everything is done with the sort of visual tools you're used to working with. You'll also be competing for work with a bunch of young whippersnappers who'll work for next to nothing, since that's the skillset they bring to the job.

I would recommend one of the Python web frameworks as an alternative. Look for jobs that want Django or Pylons or Web2Py experience to see what the demand is; LinkedIn and the Python Jobs Board (http://www.python.org/community/jobs/) are good places to start. Start playing with them to find which ones are easier to grasp, and to get a general feel for the approach to developing web apps.

-- Ed Leafe

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©2010 Lew
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Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

Author: Ed Leafe

Posted: 2010-02-27 14:51:10   Link

On Feb 27, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Lew wrote:

> As a depressing addendum, I have a long term gig demising a large VFP app.

One thing I think is important for people to realize is that wishing that something weren't true doesn't do anything to make it so. Right now the only people hiring VFP talent are companies that either have an app in VFP that is meeting their needs and they don't see any reason to change it, or people like your gig who are moving to something else. There isn't any significant new VFP development happening, and the sooner that people realize that, the better off their careers will be.

I loved working with VFP, and would have been happy to continue doing so. But I saw the beginnings of the downward trend a decade ago, and started my transition then. I haven't opened up VFP in over two years now, and to be honest, I don't miss it. I've found everything I liked about VFP

©2010 Ed Leafe
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Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

Author: Lew

Posted: 2010-02-27 15:36:49   Link

I should have added that, ironically, my career is far enough along so that this will be my last gig. I'll retire along with the Fox.

-----Original Message-----

From: Ed Leafe <ed@leafe.com>

Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:51:10

To: <profoxtech@leafe.com>

Subject: Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

On Feb 27, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Lew wrote:

> As a depressing addendum, I have a long term gig demising a large VFP app.

One thing I think is important for people to realize is that wishing that something weren't true doesn't do anything to make it so. Right now the only people hiring VFP talent are companies that either have an app in VFP that is meeting their needs and they don't see any reason to change it, or people like your gig who are moving to something else. There isn't any significant new VFP development happening, and the sooner that people realize that, the better off their careers will be.

I loved working with VFP, and would have been happy to continue doing so. But I saw the beginnings of the downward trend a decade ago, and started my transition then. I haven't opened up VFP in over two years now, and to be honest, I don't miss it. I've found everything I liked about VFP

©2010 Lew
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Re: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

Author: Ken Kixmoeller f/h

Posted: 2010-02-27 15:51:47   Link

Lew wrote:

> I should have added that, ironically, my career is far enough along so that this will be my last gig. I'll retire along with the Fox.

So many ironies --

I do still open the Fox, as I wrote my "me-manager" in it. I had a

looooooong-time client call a couple of weeks ago with an index

corruption problem. I really had to strain to remember stuff, both the

construction of the application and the Fox commands.

I'm using Fox this moment as the engine of conversion from an ancient

program (written by friends of mine in Mac 4D) to a Web app I am writing

in PHP, which is going "live" in less than a week.

I would like that to be my last big application. I'm tired of this

business after 21+ years, and I feel that the days of the lone-wolf

developer have passed.

Not old or rich enough to retire. Wondering what's next....

Ken

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RE: Looking for VFP Work/NYC Metro Area

Author: Virgil Bierschwale

Posted: 2010-02-27 16:00:46   Link

Here is what I've been looking at.

I've found that auto mechanics can bill about 65 per hour (50 in this area)

and that many of them do not understand the electronics or computers in

today's cars.

But most of us that have been in this business for a long time do understand

these items.

Think about it, you have a computer running a fixed program that monitors

sensors and turns on actuators dependent on the input it receives.

Testing equipment is fairly high (about 30,000).

I've been buying a little every unemployment check and I now have 2 main

components:

Escan Pro (automotivetestsolutions.com)

Ease (obd2.com)

While I would prefer to finish out my career (52) in the software business,

it doesn't appear to be an option and this is an area that will be very hard

to offshore which is why I'm throwing it out there for those that may want

to keep their billable rate up.

Not going to lie to you because it has been a humbling transition

financially and otherwise, but I'm beginning to think there is a way to get

my income back up as long as I depend on myself and not the corporations.

By the way, I got the idea from autotechonwheels.com for those that might

want to know more.

<< Not old or rich enough to retire. Wondering what's next....

Ken

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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©2010 Virgil Bierschwale