Index
2010-02-24 09:48 – Ed Leafe : [OT] The Fallacy of Gray
2010-02-24 10:22 – Stephen Russell : Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray
2010-02-24 10:26 – Nicholas Geti : Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray
2010-02-24 10:50 – Ed Leafe : Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray
2010-02-24 11:12 – Nicholas Geti : Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray
2010-02-24 11:17 – Virgil Bierschwale : RE: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray
2010-02-24 11:24 – Ed Leafe : Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray
2010-02-24 11:57 – Ricardo Aráoz : Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray
2010-02-24 12:03 – Ricardo Aráoz : Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray
2010-02-24 12:18 – Virgil Bierschwale : RE: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray
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[OT] The Fallacy of Gray

Author: Ed Leafe

Posted: 2010-02-24 09:48:58   Link

This is an excellent article on the sort of simplistic thinking and rationalizing that all too often results in the sort of mindless drivel of opinion in the press and, of course, on this list.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/mm/the_fallacy_of_gray/

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Sophisticate: "The world isn't black and white. No one does pure good or pure bad. It's all gray. Therefore, no one is better than anyone else."

The Zetet: "Knowing only gray, you conclude that all grays are the same shade. You mock the simplicity of the two-color view, yet you replace it with a one-color view..."

-- Marc Stiegler, David's Sling

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-- Ed Leafe

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©2010 Ed Leafe
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Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

Author: Stephen Russell

Posted: 2010-02-24 10:22:17   Link

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 8:48 AM, Ed Leafe <ed@leafe.com> wrote:

>

©2010 Stephen Russell
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Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

Author: Nicholas Geti

Posted: 2010-02-24 10:26:13   Link

I tried reading it but gave up. It is the most addled, mismash of words I

have ever read. I could not find the point any where.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Ed Leafe" <ed@leafe.com>

To: "ProFox Mailing List" <profox@leafe.com>

Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:48 AM

Subject: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

> This is an excellent article on the sort of simplistic thinking and

> rationalizing that all too often results in the sort of mindless drivel of

> opinion in the press and, of course, on this list.

>

> http://lesswrong.com/lw/mm/the_fallacy_of_gray/

>

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

> The Sophisticate: "The world isn't black and white. No one does pure

> good or pure bad. It's all gray. Therefore, no one is better than anyone

> else."

>

> The Zetet: "Knowing only gray, you conclude that all grays are the same

> shade. You mock the simplicity of the two-color view, yet you replace it

> with a one-color view..."

>

> -- Marc Stiegler, David's Sling

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>

>

> -- Ed Leafe

>

>

>

>

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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©2010 Nicholas Geti
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Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

Author: Ed Leafe

Posted: 2010-02-24 10:50:34   Link

On Feb 24, 2010, at 10:26 AM, Nicholas Geti wrote:

> I tried reading it but gave up. It is the most addled, mismash of words I

> have ever read. I could not find the point any where.

Why am I not surprised? ;-)

'Right' and 'Wrong' are not absolutes. Two people can be wrong, but that doesn't mean that their errors are equal, and the fallacy is to claim that since both are "wrong", they are equally valid explanations.

-- Ed Leafe

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©2010 Ed Leafe
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Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

Author: Nicholas Geti

Posted: 2010-02-24 11:12:42   Link

There are people in mental institutions who cannot make choose between

either side of the same coin. Congress is another institutions that cannot

come to a conclusion. One has to go through life and make decisions all the

time and not waste energy being conflicted about every choice. The ultimate

end of not making choices is exhibited by going into a catatonic state.

There are writers who write about such esoteric topics in a clear and

concise way. The author of your article is not one of them.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Ed Leafe" <ed@leafe.com>

To: "ProFox Email List" <profox@leafe.com>

Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:50 AM

Subject: Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

> On Feb 24, 2010, at 10:26 AM, Nicholas Geti wrote:

>

>> I tried reading it but gave up. It is the most addled, mismash of words I

>> have ever read. I could not find the point any where.

>

>

> Why am I not surprised? ;-)

>

> 'Right' and 'Wrong' are not absolutes. Two people can be wrong, but that

> doesn't mean that their errors are equal, and the fallacy is to claim that

> since both are "wrong", they are equally valid explanations.

>

>

> -- Ed Leafe

>

>

>

>

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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©2010 Nicholas Geti
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RE: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

Author: Virgil Bierschwale

Posted: 2010-02-24 11:17:16   Link

And we wonder why we're in the condition globally that we're in.

Two wrongs are purely and simply wrong and do not make a right, or even a

shade of gray of a right, unless of course you are trying to justify to

yourself that it is ok to do whatever you were doing that you knew was

wrong.

-----Original Message-----

From: profox-bounces@leafe.com [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf

Of Ed Leafe

Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:51 AM

To: ProFox Email List

Subject: Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

On Feb 24, 2010, at 10:26 AM, Nicholas Geti wrote:

> I tried reading it but gave up. It is the most addled, mismash of words I

> have ever read. I could not find the point any where.

Why am I not surprised? ;-)

'Right' and 'Wrong' are not absolutes. Two people can be wrong, but

that doesn't mean that their errors are equal, and the fallacy is to claim

that since both are "wrong", they are equally valid explanations.

-- Ed Leafe

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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©2010 Virgil Bierschwale
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Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

Author: Ed Leafe

Posted: 2010-02-24 11:24:50   Link

On Feb 24, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Virgil Bierschwale wrote:

> Two wrongs are purely and simply wrong and do not make a right, or even a

> shade of gray of a right, unless of course you are trying to justify to

> yourself that it is ok to do whatever you were doing that you knew was

> wrong.

Oh, geez. Do you not understand that "right" and "wrong" are not limited to your moral beliefs? That they also have another meaning of "correct" and "incorrect"? That because two answers are both wrong, that one can be closer to the correct answer than the other?

Wow, I guess I overestimated the willingness of people on this list to think instead of reflexively spew.

-- Ed Leafe

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Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

Author: Ricardo Aráoz

Posted: 2010-02-24 11:57:02   Link

Nicholas Geti wrote:

> There are people in mental institutions who cannot make choose between

> either side of the same coin.

You are right. Yet the topic is not about making choices but about

"correct/incorrect" or "right/wrong" (not in the moral sense). What he

is saying is that the right/wrong-ness (in a non-moral sense) of a

preposition is not really absolute, and even if two prepositions are

"wrong" (in a non-moral sense) they need not be at the same level of

"wrongness" (in a non-moral sense), e.g. if I say my height is 1.82 mts

and someone else says my height is 3.54mts we may be both wrong, but

I'm off by 0.02 mts whilst he is wrong by 1.46mts, so even if I'm

"wrong" (in a non-moral sense); I'm a lot less "wrong" (in a non-moral

sense) than he is.

And in the case there is no better measure of my height, you'll be

better of building a bed for a person who's 1.82 mts tall, than if you

build a bed for someone 3.54 mts tall.

As you can see, this has absolutely nothing to do with indecision,

congress, esoterism, or whatever.

Hope I was better than the author of the article in explaining the

concept to you.

> Congress is another institutions that cannot

> come to a conclusion. One has to go through life and make decisions all the

> time and not waste energy being conflicted about every choice. The ultimate

> end of not making choices is exhibited by going into a catatonic state.

>

> There are writers who write about such esoteric topics in a clear and

> concise way. The author of your article is not one of them.

>

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©2010 Ricardo Aráoz
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Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

Author: Ricardo Aráoz

Posted: 2010-02-24 12:03:43   Link

Virgil Bierschwale wrote:

> And we wonder why we're in the condition globally that we're in.

>

> Two wrongs are purely and simply wrong and do not make a right, or even a

> shade of gray of a right, unless of course you are trying to justify to

> yourself that it is ok to do whatever you were doing that you knew was

> wrong.

>

Yesterday had to go buy some groceries. From home is drive three blocks,

turn right, drive two more blocks, turn left two blocks, turn left half

a block.

But I got confused, I drove five blocks (wrong), turned right (right),

drove one and a half block (wrong), and stopped.(wrong). And what do you

think! I was at the grocery.

So I don't know about two wrongs making a right. But certainly here

three wrongs and a right made for five rights.

Go figure!

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RE: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

Author: Virgil Bierschwale

Posted: 2010-02-24 12:18:38   Link

As usual you leave out the portion about what is best for the community, or

the state, or even the country

Just because you believe something is gray or a lesser wrong, doesn't mean

that the rest of the community will agree with you and it is the community,

state or even countries welfare that needs to be the primary objective, not

some concept such as my wrong is less wrong then your wrong

-----Original Message-----

From: profox-bounces@leafe.com [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com] On Behalf

Of Ed Leafe

Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:25 AM

To: ProFox Email List

Subject: Re: [OT] The Fallacy of Gray

On Feb 24, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Virgil Bierschwale wrote:

> Two wrongs are purely and simply wrong and do not make a right, or even a

> shade of gray of a right, unless of course you are trying to justify to

> yourself that it is ok to do whatever you were doing that you knew was

> wrong.

Oh, geez. Do you not understand that "right" and "wrong" are not

limited to your moral beliefs? That they also have another meaning of

"correct" and "incorrect"? That because two answers are both wrong, that one

can be closer to the correct answer than the other?

Wow, I guess I overestimated the willingness of people on this list

to think instead of reflexively spew.

-- Ed Leafe

[excessive quoting removed by server]

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©2010 Virgil Bierschwale