When we run into issues like this with the ever changing m$ garbage we =

try to use open office. We find that it will do the conversion in most =

cases.=20

----- Original Message -----=20

From: Jack Skelley=20

To: profox@leafe.com=20

Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:47 AM

Subject: RE: When will I learn?

Kenneth:

I have been burned with a similar stuff so you are not alone and I feel =

your pain.

I did an automation to Word 2000 out of our scouting system written VFP =

6. Works great in Word 2000. Does not work well with Word 2007 on the =

new boxes and I simply don't have the time or energy to fix it to make =

it look 'perfect'. It is a report that takes the FRX and makes is a DOC =

file.

We have a M$ fellow that is a member of a cigar group I belong to and I =

bend his ear very hard every chance I get. I think he doesn't like to =

see me on most days...

Similar issues with the CDO email constructs with the latest rollups to =

Exchange 2007. The 2007 part of any M$ app will cause us Fox folks to =

lose more pounds of hair that we all can not afford to lose (at least on =

my part - no pun intended!).

Regards,

Jack Skelley

________________________________________

From: profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com [profoxtech-bounces@leafe.com] On =

Behalf Of Kenneth Kixmoeller =

[ken.kixmoeller@information-architecture.com]

Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 11:29 AM

To: profoxtech@leafe.com

Subject: When will I learn?

<< Warning! Warning!! Microsoft rant ahead! >>

<< All who rail about M$ bashing delete this message NOW! >>

<< You have been warned. >>

It happened again.

Last year, I got a nice little data conversion project which fits one

of my other specialties: publishing with InDesign. So I thunk: what

the heck, just a bunch of text manipulation, why not use the Fox? I

can knock this out fast, Fox will do it well, the client is married

to M$, so no cross-platform issues, etc.

So I do it. Had a bit of problem with the XML, none of the native

tools seemed to like the files, and hand-parsing it would blow the

budget out of the water. No schema available. So I thought: their Web

firm is pure M$ tools, so I wonder if I can expedite the conversion

with a little two-step?

I open the XML in Excel, and it converts absolutely flawlessly. Cool.

Quick little automation script, save the converted data as a DBF, and

on with the conversion to InDesign....

Worked great. Fast. My InDesign skills saved the client *lots* of

design time. Client was pleased. All was right with the world.

Fast forward one year -- this is an annual process. (Hear the ominous

music?) The client runs my conversion utility. "It's broken." %^%*

She reports a really weird-sounding error, so I ask her to send me a

screen shot of it. She does so in a Word document, and I see the DOCX

extension. I get this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. Yes,

they had been persuaded to "upgrade" to Orifice 2007.

Fast forward: Excel 2007 no longer will create a DBF.

Now I know I can save it as a CSV and append it into existing

structures. Or maybe I can do something better with the XML bypassing

the automation. Whatever. I can still make it work. But the point is

that M$ changed the rules again. Makes me look like an idiot, and

will cost my client unnecessary $$.

Ken

[excessive quoting removed by server]

On Apr 14, 2009, at 12:08 PM, KAM.covad wrote:

> When we run into issues like this with the ever changing m$ garbage

> we try to use open office. We find that it will do the conversion

> in most cases.

Thanks -- I wondered about trying that. Unfortunately, this client

wouldn't do anything like that. They have this vendor -- I am not

sure if it is also their Web shop -- that keeps convincing them to

"upgrade" their software. I keep asking *why?* "Is there something

that Orifice 2003 isn't doing that you need? My Goodness, why Vista?

Same question: is there something you need that you aren't getting?"

But the vendor must want more dough, and they believe him, and he has

them paranoid about anybody else's advice (or at least mine). Last

year when I first installed this, it wasn't working properly, and I

had a bare suspicion that InDesign was hosed. One option I said might

be a thing to try was reinstalling InDesign. Well, he thought this

was very radical and was going to call the vendor to be there when I

did it! My jaw dropped. Fortunately, it wasn't necessary to reinstall.

We don't realize how much many people think these 'serfisterkated"

computer boxes are like nuclear bombs and will explode if you do one

little thing wrong...

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Ken Kixmoeller/fh

<foxhelp@information-architecture.com> wrote:

> On Apr 14, 2009, at 12:08 PM, KAM.covad wrote:

>

>> When we run into issues like this with the ever changing m$ garbage

>> we try to use open office. We find that it will do the conversion

>> in most cases.

>

> Thanks -- I wondered about trying that. Unfortunately, this client

> wouldn't do anything like that. They have this vendor -- I am not

> sure if it is also their Web shop -- that keeps convincing them to

> "upgrade" their software. I keep asking *why?* "Is there something

> that Orifice 2003 isn't doing that you need? My Goodness, why Vista?

> Same question: is there something you need that you aren't getting?"

>

> But the vendor must want more dough, and they believe him, and he has

> them paranoid about anybody else's advice (or at least mine). Last

> year when I first installed this, it wasn't working properly, and I

> had a bare suspicion that InDesign was hosed. One option I said might

> be a thing to try was reinstalling InDesign. Well, he thought this

> was very radical and was going to call the vendor to be there when I

> did it! My jaw dropped. Fortunately, it wasn't necessary to reinstall.

>

> We don't realize how much many people think these 'serfisterkated"

> computer boxes are like nuclear bombs and will explode if you do one

> little thing wrong...

-------------------------------------

So you are upset that as a computer professional you were caught off

guard that a major application used worldwide changed 2 years ago in

particular working with your bread and butter and you just found out?

Sorry to hear about that. I thought that was why we got MSDN

subscriptions, to keep aware of what was happening.

how big are the XML files anyway? in kb or megs I am asking.

Is there a change in layout from last years files to todays?

--

Stephen Russell

Sr. Production Systems Programmer

Web and Windows Development

Independent Contractor

Memphis TN

901.246-0159

On Tue, April 14, 2009 2:36 pm, Stephen Russell wrote:

> So you are upset that as a computer professional you were caught off

> guard that a major application used worldwide changed 2 years ago in

> particular working with your bread and butter and you just found out?

>

> Sorry to hear about that. I thought that was why we got MSDN

> subscriptions, to keep aware of what was happening.

>

> how big are the XML files anyway? in kb or megs I am asking.

>

> Is there a change in layout from last years files to todays?

No, I think he's justifiably upset because there was no need to take the

DBF export option out of Excel. I can see no benefit to MS to do such a

feature drop. (...resisting conspiracy theories!!! haha)

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:41 PM, MB Software Solutions General Account

<mbsoftwaresolutions@mbsoftwaresolutions.com> wrote:

> On Tue, April 14, 2009 2:36 pm, Stephen Russell wrote:

>> So you are upset that as a computer professional you were caught off

>> guard that a major application used worldwide changed 2 years ago in

>> particular working with your bread and butter and you just found out?

>>

>> Sorry to hear about that. =A0I thought that was why we got MSDN

>> subscriptions, to keep aware of what was happening.

>>

>> how big are the XML files anyway? =A0in kb or megs I am asking.

>>

>> Is there a change in layout from last years files to todays?

>

>

> No, I think he's justifiably upset because there was no need to take the

> DBF export option out of Excel. =A0I can see no benefit to MS to do such =

a

> feature drop. =A0(...resisting conspiracy theories!!! =A0haha)

-----------------------------

Wasn't it always listed as dBase3 or dBase4 file type? They never

even took possession of their own name.

I wonder if you could take it back to Access instead of dbf?

--=20

Stephen Russell

Sr. Production Systems Programmer

Web and Windows Development

Independent Contractor

Memphis TN

901.246-0159

On Apr 14, 2009, at 1:41 PM, MB Software Solutions General Account

wrote:

>> how big are the XML files anyway? in kb or megs I am asking.

>>

>> Is there a change in layout from last years files to todays?

>

>

> No, I think he's justifiably upset because there was no need to

> take the

> DBF export option out of Excel. I can see no benefit to MS to do

> such a

> feature drop. (...resisting conspiracy theories!!! haha)

Exactly. Thank you, Michael.

And yes, I could tweak the XML, I could take it to Access or MySQL,

or __steve's bas-a$$ data format, or something. I can still make it

work. The point is that M$ made a presumably-arbitrary decision to

take that long-held functionality out of Excel. The result is pain

and spending for my clients, who did nothing but naively "upgrading"

their software.

I know it has been said many times, many ways, but __stephen, you

protest *WAY* too much whenever anybody says *anything* negative

about M$.

Ken

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Ken Kixmoeller/fh

<foxhelp@information-architecture.com> wrote:

> I know it has been said many times, many ways, but __stephen, you

> protest *WAY* too much whenever anybody says *anything* negative

> about M$.

---------------------------

Just for grins here:

<http://punditkitchen.com/2009/04/14/political-pictures-bill-gates-failure-windows/>

--

Stephen Russell

Sr. Production Systems Programmer

Web and Windows Development

Independent Contractor

Memphis TN

901.246-0159

Some people whine too much about Microsoft. If you don't want Microsoft problems, stop creating solutions using Microsoft products.

--- On Tue, 4/14/09, Stephen Russell <srussell705@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Stephen Russell <srussell705@gmail.com>

> Subject: Re: [NF] Re: When will I learn? try open office

> To: "ProFox Email List" <profox@leafe.com>

> Date: Tuesday, April 14, 2009, 3:12 PM

> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Ken

> Kixmoeller/fh

> <foxhelp@information-architecture.com>

> wrote:

>

> > I know it has been said many times, many ways, but

> __stephen, you

> > protest *WAY* too much whenever anybody says

> *anything* negative

> > about M$.

> ---------------------------

>

> Just for grins here:

> <http://punditkitchen.com/2009/04/14/political-pictures-bill-gates-failure-windows/>

>

>

>

> --

> Stephen Russell

> Sr. Production Systems Programmer

> Web and Windows Development

> Independent Contractor

> Memphis TN

>

> 901.246-0159

>

[excessive quoting removed by server]

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Michael Madigan <mmadi10699@yahoo.com> wro=

te:

>

> Some people whine too much about Microsoft. =A0If you don't want Microsof=

t problems, stop creating solutions using Microsoft products.

>

----------------------------

Or understand the problems and leverage that as potential new revenue strea=

ms.

Use the force Luke.

--=20

Stephen Russell

Sr. Production Systems Programmer

Web and Windows Development

Independent Contractor

Memphis TN

901.246-0159

I've re-written some programs to use csv files instead of proprietary files=

because of these very issues. I've also gone to using Blat instead of out=

look automation. =0A=0A=0A--- On Tue, 4/14/09, Stephen Russell <srussell70=

5@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0A> From: Stephen Russell <srussell705@gmail.com>=0A=

> Subject: Re: [NF] Re: When will I learn? try open office=0A> To: "ProFox =

Email List" <profox@leafe.com>=0A> Date: Tuesday, April 14, 2009, 3:34 PM=

=0A> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 2:22 PM,=0A> Michael Madigan <mmadi10699@yahoo=

.com>=0A> wrote:=0A> >=0A> > Some people whine too much about Microsoft. =

=A0If you=0A> don't want Microsoft problems, stop creating solutions using=

=0A> Microsoft products.=0A> >=0A> ----------------------------=0A> =0A> Or=

understand the problems and leverage that as potential=0A> new revenue str=

eams.=0A> =0A> Use the force Luke.=0A> =0A> -- =0A> Stephen Russell=0A> Sr.=

Production Systems Programmer=0A> Web and Windows Development=0A> Independ=

ent Contractor=0A> Memphis TN=0A> =0A> 901.246-0159=0A> =0A> ______________=

_________________________________=0A> Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com=0A=

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