Someone mentioned earlier about "why would you hardcode a controlsource" when

designing an n-tier system=2E Now I can see the non-grid objects (txt,lbl,cbo,

etc=2E) having a custom form property for a control source, but what would you

do about 1:many items like grids? My guess is that you'd use a custom form

property ARRAY to hold the values?

Is anyone doing this now? (I'm guessing CharlieGC since he's using

SCATTER/GATHER a lot instead of buffering=2E=2E=2E) ???

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Michael Babcock

KePRO, Inc

Tel: 717-564-8288

Fax: 717-564-4188

Internet Address: mbabcock@kepro=2Eorg

Home Page: http://www=2Ekepro=2Eorg

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The mountain is, indeed, there ... but it only has to be climbed once.

You're talking n-tier here... ease has nothing to do with it. <g> Throw your

boots away after the first climb and make or buy a class that handles these

disconnected cursor retrieving/updating/deleting tasks for you. Personally,

I choose "make it" but that's just the way I am.

Yes. You should manage the updates manually and you *should* have a UID

(Unique ID) for each record. This allows you to go straight to the record(s)

you need without having to depend on recno(). Depending on your data store,

you have options as to how you do the actual updating. I've seen developers

swear by just deleting the original record(s) and inserting new ones

all_the_time. I usually just swear at that one. <g> Others never insert new

records if there's records marked for deletion ... just reusing them if

available. Do it however you wish but you'll still have to manage the

updating/insertion of records yourself.

As for buffering, I usually use a technique I call "Optimistic Realism". For

the actual locks, I setup the data store as optimistic (physically locking

at the time of update/insertion = "Optimistic") but I use a class & fields

that store who/when/why the record/table was starting to be edited. This

allows some flexibility in managing "locks" on my data.Of course, it's not

used or even appropriate in all cases or even all apps of mine but it has

worked well for 1-tier, C/S, and n-tier work. But I think that was more than

you wanted to know. Sorry. I ramble.

- AHilton

>

> You would then have to code the updates manually, however, as

> they would be no

> physical tie to the real table (like in a view), right? You

> could still use

> the buffering I suppose with GETNEXTMODIFIED to determine what record to

> update, and then dynamically generate the UPDATE SQL assuming the

> record has a

> unique identifier for it. Seems like a lot of work, however. Perhaps I'm

> making a mountain out of a mole-hill?

You would then have to code the updates manually, however, as they would be no

physical tie to the real table (like in a view), right? You could still use

the buffering I suppose with GETNEXTMODIFIED to determine what record to

update, and then dynamically generate the UPDATE SQL assuming the record has a

unique identifier for it=2E Seems like a lot of work, however=2E Perhaps I'm

making a mountain out of a mole-hill?

>>> "ahilton@usexpr=2Ecom" 06/04/01 02:11PM >>>

You can just use a temp cursor retrieving them as needed from your

upper-tier=2E

- AHilton

> Someone mentioned earlier about "why would you hardcode a

> controlsource" when

> designing an n-tier system=2E Now I can see the non-grid objects

> (txt,lbl,cbo,

> etc=2E) having a custom form property for a control source, but

> what would you

> do about 1:many items like grids? My guess is that you'd use a

> custom form

> property ARRAY to hold the values?

>

> Is anyone doing this now? (I'm guessing CharlieGC since he's using

> SCATTER/GATHER a lot instead of buffering=2E=2E=2E) ???

>

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Michael Babcock

KePRO, Inc

Tel: 717-564-8288

Fax: 717-564-4188

Internet Address: mbabcock@kepro=2Eorg

Home Page: http://www=2Ekepro=2Eorg

*****************************************************

Ramble away---I appreciated your viewpoints! In some of the ASP code (where

an update is required), I've seen code more/less like the following: UPDATE

MyTABLE Set MyField1=3DlcField1, MyField2=3DlcField2, <etc=2E> WHERE UID=3DlcUID=20=

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so if only 1 field is really changed, the entire record contents get changed,

not just the changed field=2E They dynamically build the SQL statement composed

of all the fields, not just the updated one, stepping through the Fields

collection=2E Not very efficient IMO, but perhaps it's easier to code it that

way than to write all the conditional logic to build the UPDATE SQL for only

the field that has updated=2E I haven't personally coded anything web-related

yet (via ASP), so I can't speak from experience=2E I've got samples from folks

on the list but have had limited time to explore them in depth=2E "So much to

do; so little time in which to do it=2E"

>>> "ahilton@usexpr=2Ecom" 06/04/01 03:09PM >>>

The mountain is, indeed, there =2E=2E=2E but it only has to be climbed once=2E

You're talking n-tier here=2E=2E=2E ease has nothing to do with it=2E <g> Throw y=

our

boots away after the first climb and make or buy a class that handles these

disconnected cursor retrieving/updating/deleting tasks for you=2E Personally,

I choose "make it" but that's just the way I am=2E

Yes=2E You should manage the updates manually and you *should* have a UID

(Unique ID) for each record=2E This allows you to go straight to the record(s)

you need without having to depend on recno()=2E Depending on your data store,

you have options as to how you do the actual updating=2E I've seen developers

swear by just deleting the original record(s) and inserting new ones

all_the_time=2E I usually just swear at that one=2E <g> Others never insert new

records if there's records marked for deletion =2E=2E=2E just reusing them if

available=2E Do it however you wish but you'll still have to manage the

updating/insertion of records yourself=2E

As for buffering, I usually use a technique I call "Optimistic Realism"=2E For

the actual locks, I setup the data store as optimistic (physically locking

at the time of update/insertion =3D "Optimistic") but I use a class & fields

that store who/when/why the record/table was starting to be edited=2E This

allows some flexibility in managing "locks" on my data=2EOf course, it's not

used or even appropriate in all cases or even all apps of mine but it has

worked well for 1-tier, C/S, and n-tier work=2E But I think that was more than

you wanted to know=2E Sorry=2E I ramble=2E

- AHilton

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Michael Babcock

KePRO, Inc

Tel: 717-564-8288

Fax: 717-564-4188

Internet Address: mbabcock@kepro=2Eorg

Home Page: http://www=2Ekepro=2Eorg

*****************************************************

I have options for passing back numeric values, straight text, delimited

text, HTML, File path pointer (Pre-made HTML file, picture, ...), Arrays,

ADO and XML. These options are simply passed into the VFP COM server method

as a parameter. Again, it depends on the situation as to what I use but at

least those options are there.

Yes, VFP is very efficient in constructing and spitting back HTML strings. I

tend to let VFP handle that instead of the ASP page when I can. What's neat

(to me anyway) is when you are working on a project with actual "Web

Designers" and they want to enforce all of these visual design features,

elements and rules. You give them a few tables and a frontend to those

tables where they can store and manage their 'art of design' whereby you can

access those tables from your VFP COM server and spit back that stuff on the

fly. So, IOW, you have easy access to their web design (stored and updated

by them at anytime in the tables).

- AHilton

> So your ASP pages are simply passing HTML back and forth that is generated

> in/from your VFP COM objects? That should be more efficient anyway. That

> also sounds easier to control/code.

>

I was using "art-of-design" facetiously. I'm sure it's a gross

overgeneralization but IME these people see everything they DO as being

"art". <g> Of course, a lot of them are out of work now so I guess they can

qualify for that starving artist title.

But seriously, yes, I meant their style sheets, templates, and general

website business rules. I either save the actual tmeplates/code/pics in the

tables or references to the files in the tables. They create them and I use

them whenever I need to build HTML on the fly from the VFP COM server. That

way they get what they want and I get what they want. <g>

- AHilton

> Very interesting, A. When you're talking about their

> "art-of-design," are you

> referring to their style sheets---you're saving their

> stylesheet/templates in

> tables that they can modify? Cool...thanks for the tips.

Very interesting, A=2E When you're talking about their "art-of-design," are you

referring to their style sheets---you're saving their stylesheet/templates in

tables that they can modify? Cool=2E=2E=2Ethanks for the tips=2E >>>=20=

"ahilton@usexpr=2Ecom" 06/05/01 01:08PM >>>

I have options for passing back numeric values, straight text, delimited

text, HTML, File path pointer (Pre-made HTML file, picture, =2E=2E=2E), Arrays,

ADO and XML=2E These options are simply passed into the VFP COM server method

as a parameter=2E Again, it depends on the situation as to what I use but at

least those options are there=2E

Yes, VFP is very efficient in constructing and spitting back HTML strings=2E I

tend to let VFP handle that instead of the ASP page when I can=2E What's neat

(to me anyway) is when you are working on a project with actual "Web

Designers" and they want to enforce all of these visual design features,

elements and rules=2E You give them a few tables and a frontend to those

tables where they can store and manage their 'art of design' whereby you can

access those tables from your VFP COM server and spit back that stuff on the

fly=2E So, IOW, you have easy access to their web design (stored and updated

by them at anytime in the tables)=2E

- AHilton

> So your ASP pages are simply passing HTML back and forth that is generated

> in/from your VFP COM objects? That should be more efficient anyway=2E That

> also sounds easier to control/code=2E

>

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Michael Babcock

KePRO, Inc

Tel: 717-564-8288

Fax: 717-564-4188

Internet Address: mbabcock@kepro=2Eorg

Home Page: http://www=2Ekepro=2Eorg

*****************************************************