Author: Cotton Mr Jerry P
Posted: 2003-05-02 07:30:00 Link
John
This is a well written letter, informative and well thought out. No emotion
and no personal attacks.
Had your posts to this list been more along these lines you may not have
created so many enemies.
Jerry Cotton, MCP
(252)466-4854 mailto:cottonjp@2mawcp.usmc.mil
Custom software. Fast, Cheap, Reliable...Choose two.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John V. Petersen [mailto:John.V.Petersen@comcast.net]
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:15 AM
> To: John@interactionlaw.com
> Cc: profox@leafe.com
> Subject: Commentary on your article: Microsoft Risks
> Copyright Impotence
>
>
> Mr. Mitchell..
>
> In your article entitled "Microsoft Risks Copyright Impotence",
> http://interactionlaw.com/interactionlaw/id12.html you cited a case. I
> would like to share some commentary with you.
>
> Lasercomb America, Inc. v. Reynolds, (911 F.2d 970) (1990)
>
> According to your article, this case stands for the proposition that
> copyright owner cannot enforce its copyright while at the same time,
> engaging in misuse. I agree that this is the holding of the case.
> However, it begs the question of what is defined as
> "copyright misuse".
> Based on the Lasercomb's facts, there was a software vendor
Author: John V. Petersen
Posted: 2003-05-02 07:50:00 Link
Mr. Mitchell..
In your article entitled "Microsoft Risks Copyright Impotence",
http://interactionlaw.com/interactionlaw/id12.html you cited a case. I
would like to share some commentary with you.
Lasercomb America, Inc. v. Reynolds, (911 F.2d 970) (1990)
According to your article, this case stands for the proposition that
copyright owner cannot enforce its copyright while at the same time,
engaging in misuse. I agree that this is the holding of the case.
However, it begs the question of what is defined as "copyright misuse".
Based on the Lasercomb's facts, there was a software vendor (plaintiff)
and a steel die manufacturer (defendant) who copied the software
vendor's software. The plaintiff sued for damages and the defendant
proffered an affirmative defense - that a copyright owner cannot enforce
its copyright when it is engaged in misuse of that copyright. The
offending language of the EULA stated that no licensee could create
their own CAD/CAM die-making software. The court agreed that this was
overly broad. The Lasercomb cites another case: Compton v. Metal
Products, Inc., 453 F.2d 38 (4th Cir.1971) in which the court held that
a license to use a patent required the licensee to not engage in certain
businesses.
Clearly, the facts of this case are distinguishable since MS is not
restricting the rights of people to develop their own software that
could in effect, compete with MS. Specifically, there is nothing in the
VFP EULA that states that a licensee is prohibited from developing
software that would compete with VFP. Further, MS is not saying that you
cannot run VFP on a non-MS OS.
Also, it is important to note that while the 4th Circuit is a step below
the Supreme Court, the case is only binding on the 4th. Circuit. Many of
your readers I am sure are non-lawyers and may not realize that fact.
Further, it bears emphasizing that the 11th. Circuit has failed to adopt
the rule in Lasercomb Bellsouth Advertising & Pub. Corp. v. Donnelley
Information Pub., Inc., 933 F.2d 952. Further, it also bears noting that
MS has already been involved in a case that applied Lasercomb. Microsoft
Corp. v. BEC Computer Co., Inc., 818 F.Supp. 1313. In this central
district of CA case, the court distinguished MS's license terms from
those in Lasercomb.
In my opinion, the properly framed question is this: Does requiring
difference licenses for different operating systems constitute misuse of
copyright?
Further, because your argument contains a threshold issue, specifically
the legal standards for what constitutes mis-use of copyright, you were
compelled to discuss that issue to determine if mis-use occurred in this
case. If the answer is no, the Lasercomb Case becomes inapplicable. On
the substantive issue, MS prevailed in that case. Specifically, MS's
licensing agreements were found to not offend public policy or
anti-trust law.
Mr. Mitchell, software vendors are entitled to earn a return on their
investment. Just because a software vendor decides to draw a line
between where you can distribute royalty free and where you have to pay
a license fee, that does not create a prima facie case of copyright
mis-use.
John V. Petersen
Rutgers University School of Law-Camden Campus - 3L
Visual Foxpro Developer
Author: Andy Davies
Posted: 2003-05-02 08:44:00 Link
this list passim:
The 8 EULA has explicit language that says you can only distribute the
runtimes on Windows... < JVP >
...again
The EULA requires simultaneous running of the Windows platform with the
redistributables...< JVP >
actually: "in conjuction with" (conjuction n. the condition of being
joined) - AndyD
...but now:
MS is not saying that you cannot run VFP on a non-MS OS. < JVP >
I note, I offer no comment**, I am after all only an idiot programmer who
writes freaking emulators!
**other than to say that if the apparant contradiction is supposed to be
explained by:
The limitation does not mention the VFP Dev environment...< JVP >
then am I the only person who believes that "design, develop and test"
*specifically* does not include "run"?
AndyD <sorry!> 8-)#
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Author: Bill Arnold
Posted: 2003-05-05 00:07:00 Link
John,
Thank you very much for this real contribution to our world.
As you point out, other opinions - notably Microsoft's - are on the table,
but from the sounds of your argument and your research, the law may well
come to our (and as you also point out, our customer's) rescue here.
Here's hoping that VFP is helping you in some way now, and more so in the
future.
Bill
> On May 2, John Peterson took issue with my article at
> http://interactionlaw.com/interactionlaw/id12.html (Microsoft Risks
> Copyright Impotence). As a student of the law, he was apparently
> unimpressed by the fact that I cited only one case in support of my
> position. On Sunday, Mr. Peterson sent a terse e-mail chiding my
> failure to respond. I do so now, with apologies to non-lawyers for the
> length and the legalese.
...
John
Author: Anthony L. Testi
Posted: 2003-05-05 00:08:00 Link
John,
Thank you for spending the time to going into such detail.
Are you a lawyer that sometimes works with VFP, or a VFPer that sometimes
practices law?
Anthony
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Mitchell" <John@InteractionLaw.com>
On May 2, John Peterson took issue with my article at
http://interactionlaw.com/interactionlaw/id12.html (Microsoft Risks
Copyright Impotence). As a student of the law, he was apparently
unimpressed by the fact that I cited only one case in support of my
position. On Sunday, Mr. Peterson sent a terse e-mail chiding my
failure to respond. I do so now, with apologies to non-lawyers for the
length and the legalese.
.....
Author: Gilbert M. Hale
Posted: 2003-05-05 00:58:00 Link
Greetings Mr. Mitchell,
Thank you, twice over. First for the detailed explanation of your
reasoning, and second for helping "all" of us who are not (yet) in the legal
profession to better understand the value of a polished attorney with the
level of experience you bring to the table. Further, knowing you offered
your insights while "not on the meter" makes your response all the more
appreciated.
My father, a physician, once told me there are many levels of competence and
incompetence in any profession. That pointedly included the medical and
legal professions. It is refreshing to hear from one of the "competent
ones", as opposed to the babbling of a wanna-be, gonna-be someday, 1-2-3
Look At Me, knock-off.
With respect to the computer industry, I find those who profess themselves
to be "know all, be all, experts", and speak loudly and boldly in excess,
are often those who understand far less than they know. It is as though
brutality somehow offsets an obvious lack of understanding. I am certain
that holds true for any profession.
The real trick to my successes has come in large part in acknowledging I do
not know or understand all there is to my trade, hence always being alert to
soaking up additional information to better myself. Sharing back with
purpose is equally important. I do know when to turn to folks more
experienced than I, and whose opinions I respect and trust. It is the ones
who are constantly on the attack, rather than trying to help their
professional community grow in understanding, that I opt to not listen to.
It is within this contextual spirit that I read the background "message" of
your dissertation, whether such "message" was intentional or not. I choose
to believe you to be intentionally clever enough to get your point across
amidst the explanation you offered. I am certain this is not lost upon
others.
Well done. And certainly performed more diplomatically than warranted. You
are a gentleman indeed.
Gil
Gilbert M. Hale
New Freedom Data Resources
Pittsford, NY
585-359-8085
gil@gilhale.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: profox-bounces@leafe.com [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com]On
> Behalf Of John T. Mitchell
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 12:51 AM
> To: profox@leafe.com
> Cc: 'John V. Petersen'
> Subject: RE: Commentary on your article: Microsoft Risks Copyright
> Impotence
>
>
> On May 2, John Peterson took issue with my article at
> http://interactionlaw.com/interactionlaw/id12.html (Microsoft Risks
> Copyright Impotence). As a student of the law, he was apparently
> unimpressed by the fact that I cited only one case in support of my
> position. On Sunday, Mr. Peterson sent a terse e-mail chiding my
> failure to respond. I do so now, with apologies to non-lawyers for the
> length and the legalese.
>
> Mr. Peterson seeks to re-frame the question as ââ¬ÅDoes requiring
> difference licenses for different operating systems constitute misuse of
> copyright?ââ¬Â What Mr. Peterson fails to appreciate is that when
> Microsoft purports to license a particular use, it must be a use it has
> a right to license. In this case, Microsoft is attempting to license
> the private performance of its works, but thatââ¬â¢s like me licensing
> people to use the sidewalk in front of my house. I may find people
> willing to pay, but that does not mean I have the right to license such
> use, nor that anyone who walks along the sidewalk without paying me is
> doing anything illegal. The law doesnââ¬â¢t change just because I happen to
> be Microsoft and say ââ¬Åyou can only use my software if you promise to not
> walk on the sidewalk in front of Bill gatesââ¬â¢ house.ââ¬Â
>
> Of crucial importance here is the fact that no one ââ¬â not even a thief or
> a pirate ââ¬â can infringe upon any of the exclusive rights of a copyright
> owner by making a non-public performance of a work. Copyright owners
> enjoy an exclusive right to perform a work publicly, but have no right
> to exclude anyone from performing a work privately. Twentieth Century
> Music Corp. v. Aiken, 422 U.S. 151, 155 (1975). A few years earlier,
> the Supreme Court had explained: ââ¬ÅThe Copyright Act does not give a
> copyright holder control over all uses of his copyrighted work.
> Instead, [Section 106] of the Act enumerates several ââ¬Ërightsââ¬â¢ that are
> made ââ¬Ëexclusiveââ¬â¢ to the holder of the copyright. If a person, without
> authorization from the copyright holder, puts a copyrighted work to a
> use within the scope of one of these ââ¬Ëexclusive rights,ââ¬â¢ he infringes
> the copyright. If he puts the work to a use not enumerated in [Section
> 106], he does not infringe.ââ¬Â Fortnightly Corp. v. United Artists
> Television, Inc., 392 U.S. 390, 393-95 (1968) (footnotes omitted).
>
> In his dissent in the Betamax case (where the videocassette recorder
> survived a legal challenge), Justice Blackmun explained: ââ¬ÅSection
> 106(4) grants a copyright owner the exclusive right to perform the work
> ââ¬Ëpublicly,ââ¬â¢ but does not afford the owner protection with respect to
> private performances by others. A motion picture is ââ¬Ëperformedââ¬â¢
> whenever its images are shown or its sounds are made audible. ç 101.
> Like ââ¬Ë[singing] a copyrighted lyric in the shower,ââ¬â¢ Twentieth Century
> Music Corp. v. Aiken, 422 U.S. 151, 155 (1975), watching television at
> home with one's family and friends is now considered a performance.
> Home television viewing nevertheless does not infringe any copyright ââ¬â
> but only because ç 106(4) contains the word ââ¬Ëpublicly.ââ¬â¢Ã¢â¬Â (Sony Corp. of
> America v. Universal City Studios, Inc., 464 U.S. 417, 468-69 (1984),
> Blackmun, J., dissenting (footnotes and citations omitted).) And you
> can watch those programs on the television of your own choosing!
>
> The private performance of a lawfully reproduced copy of Microsoft
> software is not an infringement of any of the exclusive rights of the
> copyright holder, and Microsoft may not use its exclusive rights to gain
> control over the publicââ¬â¢s rights. ââ¬ÅA copyright owner may not enforce
> its copyright to . . . use it in any manner violative of the public
> policy embodied in the grant of a copyright.ââ¬Â Tricom, Inc. v. Electronic
> Data Systems Corp., 902 F. Supp. 741 (E.D. Mich. 1995) (citations
> omitted). Leveraging copyright power to control behavior which Congress
> intended remain outside of the copyright ownerââ¬â¢s control is the type of
> conduct condemned in United States v. Paramount Pictures, Inc., 334 U.S.
> 131 (1948); Morton Salt Co. v. G.S. Suppiger Co., 314 U.S. 488 (1942);
> Motion Picture Patents Co. v. Universal Film Mfg. Co., 243 U.S. 502
> (1917), and Lasercomb Am., Inc. v. Reynolds, 911 F.2d 970 (4th Cir.
> 1990).
>
> The public policy granting copyrights ââ¬Åexcludes from it all that is not
> embracedââ¬Â in the original copyrighted work, and ââ¬Åequally forbids the use
> of the copyright to secure an exclusive right or limited monopolyââ¬Â
> beyond the scope of the Copyright Act and which is ââ¬Åcontrary to public
> policy to grant.ââ¬Â (Lasercomb America, Inc. v. Reynolds, 911 F.2d 970,
> 977 (4th Cir. 1990) (quoting with revisions from Morton Salt, 314 U.S.
> at 492) (brackets omitted).) Mr. Peterson has suggested that this
> Fourth Circuit decision is not good enough, so I have relied more on
> Supreme Court cases. Letââ¬â¢s see a little more of where the Supreme Court
> stands.
>
> In 1917, the Supreme Court took on the issue of private enlargement of
> copyright in the Motion Picture Patents case. It determined that the
> owner of an intellectual property monopoly ââ¬â in that case a patented
> motion picture film projector ââ¬â could not lawfully use a ââ¬Ålicensingââ¬Â
> mechanism like Microsoft is using to obligate purchasers of the machine
> to use it solely with motion pictures containing another patent which
> the company also owned. (Motion Picture Patents Co. v. Universal Film
> Mfg Co., 243 U.S. 502.) On page 519, the court stated: ââ¬ÅA restriction
> which would give to the plaintiff such a potential power for evil over
> an industry which must be recognized as an important element in the
> amusement life of the nation . . . is plainly void, because wholly
> without the scope and purpose of our patent laws, and because, if
> sustained, it would be gravely injurious to that public interest, which
> we have seen is more a favorite of the law than is the promotion of
> private fortunes.ââ¬Â This position was followed in Carbice Corp. of Am.
> v. Am. Patents Dev. Corp., 283 U.S. 27 (1931) (owner of a patented
> package that used solid carbon dioxide could not obligate licensees to
> use its own solid carbon dioxide).
>
> The relevance of the Supreme Courtââ¬â¢s analysis in Motion Picture Patents
> Co. is inescapable. If it is unlawful to extend the statutory monopoly
> by limiting the use of a patented motion picture projector to films
> containing other intellectual property owned by the licensor, then it
> stands to reason that it is equally unlawful to license only on
> condition that it not be used in conjunction with an operating system of
> choice.
>
> In Morton Salt Co. v. G.S. Suppiger Co., 314 U.S. 488 (1942), the
> Supreme Court examined the use of the patent monopoly in a machine for
> depositing salt tablets to force licensees to use only salt tablets
> manufactured by the patent holder. The court said: ââ¬ÅThe public policy
> which includes inventions within the granted monopoly excludes from it
> all that is not embraced in the invention. It equally forbids the use
> of the patent to secure an exclusive right or limited monopoly not
> granted by the Patent Office and which it is contrary to public policy
> to grant. (Id. at 492.)
>
> And this line of reasoning is not limited to patent and trademark law.
> Morton Salt itself noted with approval the application of this doctrine
> to copyrights. (Id. at 494.) In United States v. Paramount Pictures,
> Inc., 334 U.S. 131 (1948), the Supreme Court further explained the
> limitations on copyright power in the context of ââ¬Åblock bookingââ¬Â ââ¬â ââ¬Åthe
> practice of licensing, or offering for license, one feature or group of
> features on condition that the exhibitor will also license another
> feature or group of features released by the distributors during a given
> period.ââ¬Â (Id. at 156.) Like patent law, the exclusive right granted
> under the Copyright Act does not include any privilege to ââ¬Åadd to the
> monopoly of the copyright in violation of the principle of the patent
> cases involving tying clauses.ââ¬Â (Id. at 158.)
>
> >From these foundations, the doctrine of copyright misuse has developed
> both as a violation of antitrust law and as an affirmative defense
> against copyright infringement when the copyright holder, by means of an
> over-reaching license or other method of control, tries ââ¬Åto secure an
> exclusive right or limited monopoly not granted by the [Copyright]
> Office and which it is contrary to public policy to grant.ââ¬Â (Lasercomb
> Am., Inc. v. Reynolds, 911 F.2d 970, 976 (4th Cir. 1990), quoting from
> Morton Salt, 314 U.S. at 491.) Moreover, copyright misuse is such a
> violation of public policy that some courts will not require that the
> person against whom the misuse is directed be a party to the litigation.
> ââ¬Å[T]he fact that appellants here were not parties to one of Lasercombââ¬â¢s
> standard license agreements is inapposite to their copyright misuse
> defense.ââ¬Â Lasercomb, 911 F.2d at 979.)
>
> United States courts have a long history of recognizing that licensing
> terms which have the purpose and effect of voiding the boundary around
> the exclusive rights of the copyright holder, thereby enlarging the
> copyright holderââ¬â¢s universe of control, constitute misuse of copyrights
> and should be void as against public policy. The same should be true
> where EULAs are used to the same end. ââ¬ÅSound policy rationales support
> the analysis of those courts that have found shrinkwrap licenses to be
> unenforceable. A system of ââ¬Ëlicensingââ¬â¢ which grants software publishers
> this degree of unchecked power to control the market deserves to be the
> object of careful scrutiny.ââ¬Â (Softman Prods. Co. v. Adobe Sys., Inc.,
> 171 F. Supp. 2d 1075, 1091 (C.D. Cal. 2001).) The Softman court was
> quite critical of Adobeââ¬â¢s efforts to compel third-parties to relinquish
> the rights they enjoy under the Copyright Act through use of an end-user
> license agreement ââ¬â in that case, a ââ¬Ålicenseââ¬Â that purported to make the
> third party waive its rights under Section 109 to resell lawfully made
> copies without Adobeââ¬â¢s consent. ââ¬ÅThe Court finds that the provisions
> contained in Adobeââ¬â¢s EULA purport to diminish the rights of customers to
> use the software in ways ordinarily enjoyed by customers under copyright
> law. Therefore, these restrictions appear to be inconsistent with the
> balance of rights set forth in intellectual property law.ââ¬Â (Id. at 1090
> (footnote omitted).)
>
> Indeed, a contrary result would be untenable, for it would manage ââ¬Åto
> transform a contractual term that software purveyors unilaterally
> include in their contracts into a binding provision on the world ââ¬â even
> on parties who are not in privity of contract ââ¬â and one that, moreover,
> undoes the dictates of Congress by undermining an essential feature of
> the Copyright Act!ââ¬Â 2 M. Nimmer & D. Nimmer, NIMMER ON COPYRIGHT ç
> 8.12[B][1][d][i] (2002) (exclamation point in original).
>
> The United States is not alone in this. In the United Kingdom, the
> Commission on Intellectual Property Rights recently concluded that
> ââ¬ÅWhere suppliers of digital information or software attempt to restrict
> ââ¬Ëfair useââ¬â¢ rights by contract provisions associated with the
> distribution of digital material, the relevant contract provisions may
> be treated as void.ââ¬Â (Commission on Intellectual Property Rights,
> Integrating Intellectual property Rights and Development Policy:
> Executive Summary, September 2002, at 22.)
>
> In Australia, the Copyright Law Review Committee recommends that the
> Australian Copyright Act ââ¬Åbe amended to provide that an agreement, or a
> provision of an agreement, that excludes or modifies, or has the effect
> of excluding or modifying, the operation of [certain limitations upon
> the rights of copyright holders] has no effect.ââ¬Â (Recommendation 7.49,
> Copyright Law review Committee, Copyright and Contract, Commonwealth of
> Australia 2002.)
>
> It is not my custom to go into this much detail when Iââ¬â¢m not ââ¬Åon the
> meter,ââ¬Â but I feel deeply that it is not just developers who may lose
> out if these bogus licenses are allowed to prevail. It is also the
> public, that stands to gain from the innovative new works and uses
> created by the developers, who would suffer as well. But one
> disclaimer: Mr. Peterson will likely soon be licensed to practice law,
> and he obviously has an opinion different from mine, so donââ¬â¢t take this
> as legal advice ââ¬â check with a lawyer whose judgment you trust before
> thumbing your nose at an offensive EULA.
>
> John
> __________________
> John T. Mitchell
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John V. Petersen [mailto:John.V.Petersen@comcast.net]
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:15 AM
> To: John@interactionlaw.com
> Cc: profox@leafe.com
> Subject: Commentary on your article: Microsoft Risks Copyright Impotence
>
> <snip>
>
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]
Author: John T. Mitchell
Posted: 2003-05-05 01:40:00 Link
On May 2, John Peterson took issue with my article at
http://interactionlaw.com/interactionlaw/id12.html (Microsoft Risks
Copyright Impotence). As a student of the law, he was apparently
unimpressed by the fact that I cited only one case in support of my
position. On Sunday, Mr. Peterson sent a terse e-mail chiding my
failure to respond. I do so now, with apologies to non-lawyers for the
length and the legalese.
Mr. Peterson seeks to re-frame the question as "Does requiring
difference licenses for different operating systems constitute misuse of
copyright?" What Mr. Peterson fails to appreciate is that when
Microsoft purports to license a particular use, it must be a use it has
a right to license. In this case, Microsoft is attempting to license
the private performance of its works, but that's like me licensing
people to use the sidewalk in front of my house. I may find people
willing to pay, but that does not mean I have the right to license such
use, nor that anyone who walks along the sidewalk without paying me is
doing anything illegal. The law doesn't change just because I happen to
be Microsoft and say "you can only use my software if you promise to not
walk on the sidewalk in front of Bill gates' house."
Of crucial importance here is the fact that no one - not even a thief or
a pirate - can infringe upon any of the exclusive rights of a copyright
owner by making a non-public performance of a work. Copyright owners
enjoy an exclusive right to perform a work publicly, but have no right
to exclude anyone from performing a work privately. Twentieth Century
Music Corp. v. Aiken, 422 U.S. 151, 155 (1975). A few years earlier,
the Supreme Court had explained: "The Copyright Act does not give a
copyright holder control over all uses of his copyrighted work.
Instead, [Section 106] of the Act enumerates several 'rights' that are
made 'exclusive' to the holder of the copyright. If a person, without
authorization from the copyright holder, puts a copyrighted work to a
use within the scope of one of these 'exclusive rights,' he infringes
the copyright. If he puts the work to a use not enumerated in [Section
106], he does not infringe." Fortnightly Corp. v. United Artists
Television, Inc., 392 U.S. 390, 393-95 (1968) (footnotes omitted).
In his dissent in the Betamax case (where the videocassette recorder
survived a legal challenge), Justice Blackmun explained: "Section
106(4) grants a copyright owner the exclusive right to perform the work
'publicly,' but does not afford the owner protection with respect to
private performances by others. A motion picture is 'performed'
whenever its images are shown or its sounds are made audible. ç 101.
Like '[singing] a copyrighted lyric in the shower,' Twentieth Century
Music Corp. v. Aiken, 422 U.S. 151, 155 (1975), watching television at
home with one's family and friends is now considered a performance.
Home television viewing nevertheless does not infringe any copyright -
but only because ç 106(4) contains the word 'publicly.'" (Sony Corp. of
America v. Universal City Studios, Inc., 464 U.S. 417, 468-69 (1984),
Blackmun, J., dissenting (footnotes and citations omitted).) And you
can watch those programs on the television of your own choosing!
The private performance of a lawfully reproduced copy of Microsoft
software is not an infringement of any of the exclusive rights of the
copyright holder, and Microsoft may not use its exclusive rights to gain
control over the public's rights. "A copyright owner may not enforce
its copyright to . . . use it in any manner violative of the public
policy embodied in the grant of a copyright." Tricom, Inc. v. Electronic
Data Systems Corp., 902 F. Supp. 741 (E.D. Mich. 1995) (citations
omitted). Leveraging copyright power to control behavior which Congress
intended remain outside of the copyright owner's control is the type of
conduct condemned in United States v. Paramount Pictures, Inc., 334 U.S.
131 (1948); Morton Salt Co. v. G.S. Suppiger Co., 314 U.S. 488 (1942);
Motion Picture Patents Co. v. Universal Film Mfg. Co., 243 U.S. 502
(1917), and Lasercomb Am., Inc. v. Reynolds, 911 F.2d 970 (4th Cir.
1990).
The public policy granting copyrights "excludes from it all that is not
embraced" in the original copyrighted work, and "equally forbids the use
of the copyright to secure an exclusive right or limited monopoly"
beyond the scope of the Copyright Act and which is "contrary to public
policy to grant." (Lasercomb America, Inc. v. Reynolds, 911 F.2d 970,
977 (4th Cir. 1990) (quoting with revisions from Morton Salt, 314 U.S.
at 492) (brackets omitted).) Mr. Peterson has suggested that this
Fourth Circuit decision is not good enough, so I have relied more on
Supreme Court cases. Let's see a little more of where the Supreme Court
stands.
In 1917, the Supreme Court took on the issue of private enlargement of
copyright in the Motion Picture Patents case. It determined that the
owner of an intellectual property monopoly - in that case a patented
motion picture film projector - could not lawfully use a "licensing"
mechanism like Microsoft is using to obligate purchasers of the machine
to use it solely with motion pictures containing another patent which
the company also owned. (Motion Picture Patents Co. v. Universal Film
Mfg Co., 243 U.S. 502.) On page 519, the court stated: "A restriction
which would give to the plaintiff such a potential power for evil over
an industry which must be recognized as an important element in the
amusement life of the nation . . . is plainly void, because wholly
without the scope and purpose of our patent laws, and because, if
sustained, it would be gravely injurious to that public interest, which
we have seen is more a favorite of the law than is the promotion of
private fortunes." This position was followed in Carbice Corp. of Am.
v. Am. Patents Dev. Corp., 283 U.S. 27 (1931) (owner of a patented
package that used solid carbon dioxide could not obligate licensees to
use its own solid carbon dioxide).
The relevance of the Supreme Court's analysis in Motion Picture Patents
Co. is inescapable. If it is unlawful to extend the statutory monopoly
by limiting the use of a patented motion picture projector to films
containing other intellectual property owned by the licensor, then it
stands to reason that it is equally unlawful to license only on
condition that it not be used in conjunction with an operating system of
choice.
In Morton Salt Co. v. G.S. Suppiger Co., 314 U.S. 488 (1942), the
Supreme Court examined the use of the patent monopoly in a machine for
depositing salt tablets to force licensees to use only salt tablets
manufactured by the patent holder. The court said: "The public policy
which includes inventions within the granted monopoly excludes from it
all that is not embraced in the invention. It equally forbids the use
of the patent to secure an exclusive right or limited monopoly not
granted by the Patent Office and which it is contrary to public policy
to grant. (Id. at 492.)
And this line of reasoning is not limited to patent and trademark law.
Morton Salt itself noted with approval the application of this doctrine
to copyrights. (Id. at 494.) In United States v. Paramount Pictures,
Inc., 334 U.S. 131 (1948), the Supreme Court further explained the
limitations on copyright power in the context of "block booking" - "the
practice of licensing, or offering for license, one feature or group of
features on condition that the exhibitor will also license another
feature or group of features released by the distributors during a given
period." (Id. at 156.) Like patent law, the exclusive right granted
under the Copyright Act does not include any privilege to "add to the
monopoly of the copyright in violation of the principle of the patent
cases involving tying clauses." (Id. at 158.)
>From these foundations, the doctrine of copyright misuse has developed
both as a violation of antitrust law and as an affirmative defense
against copyright infringement when the copyright holder, by means of an
over-reaching license or other method of control, tries "to secure an
exclusive right or limited monopoly not granted by the [Copyright]
Office and which it is contrary to public policy to grant." (Lasercomb
Am., Inc. v. Reynolds, 911 F.2d 970, 976 (4th Cir. 1990), quoting from
Morton Salt, 314 U.S. at 491.) Moreover, copyright misuse is such a
violation of public policy that some courts will not require that the
person against whom the misuse is directed be a party to the litigation.
"[T]he fact that appellants here were not parties to one of Lasercomb's
standard license agreements is inapposite to their copyright misuse
defense." Lasercomb, 911 F.2d at 979.)
United States courts have a long history of recognizing that licensing
terms which have the purpose and effect of voiding the boundary around
the exclusive rights of the copyright holder, thereby enlarging the
copyright holder's universe of control, constitute misuse of copyrights
and should be void as against public policy. The same should be true
where EULAs are used to the same end. "Sound policy rationales support
the analysis of those courts that have found shrinkwrap licenses to be
unenforceable. A system of 'licensing' which grants software publishers
this degree of unchecked power to control the market deserves to be the
object of careful scrutiny." (Softman Prods. Co. v. Adobe Sys., Inc.,
171 F. Supp. 2d 1075, 1091 (C.D. Cal. 2001).) The Softman court was
quite critical of Adobe's efforts to compel third-parties to relinquish
the rights they enjoy under the Copyright Act through use of an end-user
license agreement - in that case, a "license" that purported to make the
third party waive its rights under Section 109 to resell lawfully made
copies without Adobe's consent. "The Court finds that the provisions
contained in Adobe's EULA purport to diminish the rights of customers to
use the software in ways ordinarily enjoyed by customers under copyright
law. Therefore, these restrictions appear to be inconsistent with the
balance of rights set forth in intellectual property law." (Id. at 1090
(footnote omitted).)
Indeed, a contrary result would be untenable, for it would manage "to
transform a contractual term that software purveyors unilaterally
include in their contracts into a binding provision on the world - even
on parties who are not in privity of contract - and one that, moreover,
undoes the dictates of Congress by undermining an essential feature of
the Copyright Act!" 2 M. Nimmer & D. Nimmer, NIMMER ON COPYRIGHT ç
8.12[B][1][d][i] (2002) (exclamation point in original).
The United States is not alone in this. In the United Kingdom, the
Commission on Intellectual Property Rights recently concluded that
"Where suppliers of digital information or software attempt to restrict
'fair use' rights by contract provisions associated with the
distribution of digital material, the relevant contract provisions may
be treated as void." (Commission on Intellectual Property Rights,
Integrating Intellectual property Rights and Development Policy:
Executive Summary, September 2002, at 22.)
In Australia, the Copyright Law Review Committee recommends that the
Australian Copyright Act "be amended to provide that an agreement, or a
provision of an agreement, that excludes or modifies, or has the effect
of excluding or modifying, the operation of [certain limitations upon
the rights of copyright holders] has no effect." (Recommendation 7.49,
Copyright Law review Committee, Copyright and Contract, Commonwealth of
Australia 2002.)
It is not my custom to go into this much detail when I'm not "on the
meter," but I feel deeply that it is not just developers who may lose
out if these bogus licenses are allowed to prevail. It is also the
public, that stands to gain from the innovative new works and uses
created by the developers, who would suffer as well. But one
disclaimer: Mr. Peterson will likely soon be licensed to practice law,
and he obviously has an opinion different from mine, so don't take this
as legal advice - check with a lawyer whose judgment you trust before
thumbing your nose at an offensive EULA.
John
__________________
John T. Mitchell
-----Original Message-----
From: John V. Petersen [mailto:John.V.Petersen@comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:15 AM
To: John@interactionlaw.com
Cc: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Commentary on your article: Microsoft Risks Copyright Impotence
<snip>
Author: John V. Petersen
Posted: 2003-05-05 07:00:00 Link
Hi Anthony,
I am neither. I cannot (nor have I done so here) practice law. However,
I can provide commentary (just as you can) such as I am doing here. I
can and will write a law review article on this.
I am a VFP developer who goes to law school and has an intense interest
in the areas of IP/Copyrights.
< JVP >
<<
John,
Thank you for spending the time to going into such detail.
Are you a lawyer that sometimes works with VFP, or a VFPer that
sometimes
practices law?
Anthony
<<
Author: John V. Petersen
Posted: 2003-05-05 07:08:00 Link
Mr. Mitchell,=20
Thanks for the reply. One quick point, my last name is Petersen, not
Peterson. Not a big deal but I thought I would point it out nonetheless.
With respect to my critique of your article, it had nothing to do with
the fact that you cited only one case. Rather, I took issue with the
fact that the facts of that case are easily distinguishable from the
facts at hand. Further, in the one MS case that attempted to apply
Lasercomb to a MS EULA, MS won the substantive issues in that case.=20
As I see it, your argument is that MS is misusing its copyright because
it seeks to expand the reach of the copyright beyond what Congress
intended. Specifically, your contention is that MS is violating the
boundaries between public and private use. This begs the following
questions:
1. What differentiates between public and private use?
2. In the facts at hand, do we have a public or private use?
3. Once classified, do the facts at hand constitute mis-use of
copyright?
I am going to take a few days to research the SCOTUS jurisprudence you
have cited, but at the outset, I want to share a few comments. As far
as the law is concerned, I question how much on-point case law is
available. Copyright/Anti-Trust law and the case law in my opinion, has
lagged behind the technology curve for far too long. This is one of the
reasons I decided to go to law school.=20
I don't consider people that work in the commercial sector, deploying
applications (consultants) to be working in the private arena or to be
private actors. On the other hand, if I wanted to conduct research in
private and not for financial gain, I would indeed agree that this would
constitute a "private performance".=20
A good example is a DVD - which would enjoy the protections of
copyright. As a private actor, I should be allowed to burn a copy for
myself in case the original gets damaged or in the case of protecting
the original. Here, I am acting completely in private. However, if I
started making multiple copies and handed them out to my friends, I
think you and I, and everyone else would agree that this would be a
violation of copyright. Further, consider the case of me inviting 10
friends over to watch a DVD. Again, I am a private actor here and it is
none of the copyright owner's business what I am doing. On the other
hand, charging admission at the door to allow people to watch the movie
could be a problem. On the other hand, if I rented the DVD at
Blockbuster and wanted folks to chip in (assuming I was really cheap!!)
- I could do that. Further, if it were a pay-per-view event and a group
of us wanted to split the costs, we could do that. Ultimately, it is a
mixed bag and the law needs to catch up to the digital age.
Comparing to this context, if I want to tinker around to see if I can
get the royalty free distributables to work in Linux, I don't see the
harm in that. I am in the private context and MS should not care.
Well...MS may care but I don't think there is much that could be done
about it. On the other hand, If I want to enter the stream of commerce
and start selling that solution, then that is another matter altogether.
No longer am I acting privately. Here Mr. Mitchell is where I see your
private vs. pubic argument falling apart.
I do agree that there are affirmative limits on how far software vendors
can reach in their EULA's. For example, placing anti-competitive
language that would run afoul of anti-trust laws would be impermissible.
This is essentially what the holding of the Lasercomb Case stands for. I
also agree that EULA's have played fast and loose at times with the
first amendment (the absence of the State Action Doctrine
notwithstanding). Like any contract, EULA's have to be fair, not against
the law, and further, not against public policy. My disagreement with
your position is that what MS seeks to do here is not against the law,
is fair, and does not offend public policy. This was the essntial
holding in Lasercomb - non-analogous scnenario nothwithstanding.
I believe there are some important facts here that you are not aware of.
In these facts, there are two components. First, there is the Visual
FoxPro development environment. Every developer is allowed to install it
on one and only one machine. If MS were to limit this aspect of the EULA
to only Windows - I would agree that this would be impermissible. Many
people are running Office under Linux today and MS apparently does not
have a problem with that. MS rang the register with the sale of the box
- so that should be the end of the story. With Visual FoxPro and for
that matter, with .NET and MSDE, OLE-DB, etc. there is royalty free
distribution. To date, I have only read the VFP and .NET EULA's. And, as
far as the royalty-free distributable is concerned, those can only be
run on the Windows platform. It is important to note that MS is under no
obligation to offer royalty free distribution in the first place and
could end support for that tomorrow. As I see it, Windows subsidizes
this effort. And, if that subsidy is not present, MS has the right to
require payment in the form of a royalty fee. Others have attempted to
make a product tying argument here. That analogy does not apply since
the end user has alternatives. As has been stated before, people wishing
to purchase the full development version of Visual FoxPro and run that
on Linux may do so and in turn, would be in compliance with the EULA.=20
A company that spends $5 BILLION annually on Research and Development
and that employs over 100K people world wide is entitled to realize a
return on the fruits of it labor. I agree that how a company goes about
realizing that return must do so within the boundaries of the law
(copyright, anti-trust, etc.). It is good for the company, the
employees, the stockholders, and perhaps most importantly, it is good
for our country and the economy.=20
For what its worth, I believe that if the DCMA had been in effect in
1980, the software industry would not be where or what it is today.
However, it is not 1980 anymore and given the investment dollars at
stake, clearly the rules have to be different. A lot of parralels can be
drawn between the software industry and other technologies when they
were in the early stages of their life-cycles. I don't agree with
everything software vendors try to do, but for the most part, I am in
their camp.=20
Best regards - and lastly, I do appreciate the opportunity to discuss
and debate the issue with a lawyer...
I'll be in touch...
< JVP >
-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Mitchell [mailto:John@InteractionLaw.com]=20
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 12:51 AM
To: profox@leafe.com
Cc: 'John V. Petersen'
Subject: RE: Commentary on your article: Microsoft Risks Copyright
Impotence
On May 2, John Peterson took issue with my article at
http://interactionlaw.com/interactionlaw/id12.html (Microsoft Risks
Copyright Impotence). As a student of the law, he was apparently
unimpressed by the fact that I cited only one case in support of my
position. On Sunday, Mr. Peterson sent a terse e-mail chiding my
failure to respond. I do so now, with apologies to non-lawyers for the
length and the legalese.
Mr. Peterson seeks to re-frame the question as =93Does requiring
difference licenses for different operating systems constitute misuse of
copyright?=94 What Mr. Peterson fails to appreciate is that when
Microsoft purports to license a particular use, it must be a use it has
a right to license. In this case, Microsoft is attempting to license
the private performance of its works, but that=92s like me licensing
people to use the sidewalk in front of my house. I may find people
willing to pay, but that does not mean I have the right to license such
use, nor that anyone who walks along the sidewalk without paying me is
doing anything illegal. The law doesn=92t change just because I happen =
to
be Microsoft and say =93you can only use my software if you promise to =
not
walk on the sidewalk in front of Bill gates=92 house.=94=20
Of crucial importance here is the fact that no one =96 not even a thief =
or
a pirate =96 can infringe upon any of the exclusive rights of a =
copyright
owner by making a non-public performance of a work. Copyright owners
enjoy an exclusive right to perform a work publicly, but have no right
to exclude anyone from performing a work privately. Twentieth Century
Music Corp. v. Aiken, 422 U.S. 151, 155 (1975). A few years earlier,
the Supreme Court had explained: =93The Copyright Act does not give a
copyright holder control over all uses of his copyrighted work. Instead,
[Section 106] of the Act enumerates several =91rights=92 that are made
=91exclusive=92 to the holder of the copyright. If a person, without
authorization from the copyright holder, puts a copyrighted work to a
use within the scope of one of these =91exclusive rights,=92 he =
infringes
the copyright. If he puts the work to a use not enumerated in [Section
106], he does not infringe.=94 Fortnightly Corp. v. United Artists
Television, Inc., 392 U.S. 390, 393-95 (1968) (footnotes omitted). =20
In his dissent in the Betamax case (where the videocassette recorder
survived a legal challenge), Justice Blackmun explained: =93Section
106(4) grants a copyright owner the exclusive right to perform the work
=91publicly,=92 but does not afford the owner protection with respect to
private performances by others. A motion picture is =91performed=92
whenever its images are shown or its sounds are made audible. =A7 101.
Like =91[singing] a copyrighted lyric in the shower,=92 Twentieth =
Century
Music Corp. v. Aiken, 422 U.S. 151, 155 (1975), watching television at
home with one's family and friends is now considered a performance. Home
television viewing nevertheless does not infringe any copyright =96 but
only because =A7 106(4) contains the word =91publicly.=92=94 (Sony =
Corp. of
America v. Universal City Studios, Inc., 464 U.S. 417, 468-69 (1984),
Blackmun, J., dissenting (footnotes and citations omitted).) And you
can watch those programs on the television of your own choosing! =20
The private performance of a lawfully reproduced copy of Microsoft
software is not an infringement of any of the exclusive rights of the
copyright holder, and Microsoft may not use its exclusive rights to gain
control over the public=92s rights. =93A copyright owner may not =
enforce
its copyright to . . . use it in any manner violative of the public
policy embodied in the grant of a copyright.=94 Tricom, Inc. v. =
Electronic
Data Systems Corp., 902 F. Supp. 741 (E.D. Mich. 1995) (citations
omitted). Leveraging copyright power to control behavior which Congress
intended remain outside of the copyright owner=92s control is the type =
of
conduct condemned in United States v. Paramount Pictures, Inc., 334 U.S.
131 (1948); Morton Salt Co. v. G.S. Suppiger Co., 314 U.S. 488 (1942);
Motion Picture Patents Co. v. Universal Film Mfg. Co., 243 U.S. 502
(1917), and Lasercomb Am., Inc. v. Reynolds, 911 F.2d 970 (4th Cir.
1990).
The public policy granting copyrights =93excludes from it all that is =
not
embraced=94 in the original copyrighted work, and =93equally forbids the =
use
of the copyright to secure an exclusive right or limited monopoly=94
beyond the scope of the Copyright Act and which is =93contrary to public
policy to grant.=94 (Lasercomb America, Inc. v. Reynolds, 911 F.2d 970,
977 (4th Cir. 1990) (quoting with revisions from Morton Salt, 314 U.S.
at 492) (brackets omitted).) Mr. Peterson has suggested that this
Fourth Circuit decision is not good enough, so I have relied more on
Supreme Court cases. Let=92s see a little more of where the Supreme =
Court
stands. =20
In 1917, the Supreme Court took on the issue of private enlargement of
copyright in the Motion Picture Patents case. It determined that the
owner of an intellectual property monopoly =96 in that case a patented
motion picture film projector =96 could not lawfully use a =
=93licensing=94
mechanism like Microsoft is using to obligate purchasers of the machine
to use it solely with motion pictures containing another patent which
the company also owned. (Motion Picture Patents Co. v. Universal Film
Mfg Co., 243 U.S. 502.) On page 519, the court stated: =93A =
restriction
which would give to the plaintiff such a potential power for evil over
an industry which must be recognized as an important element in the
amusement life of the nation . . . is plainly void, because wholly
without the scope and purpose of our patent laws, and because, if
sustained, it would be gravely injurious to that public interest, which
we have seen is more a favorite of the law than is the promotion of
private fortunes.=94 This position was followed in Carbice Corp. of Am.
v. Am. Patents Dev. Corp., 283 U.S. 27 (1931) (owner of a patented
package that used solid carbon dioxide could not obligate licensees to
use its own solid carbon dioxide).
The relevance of the Supreme Court=92s analysis in Motion Picture =
Patents
Co. is inescapable. If it is unlawful to extend the statutory monopoly
by limiting the use of a patented motion picture projector to films
containing other intellectual property owned by the licensor, then it
stands to reason that it is equally unlawful to license only on
condition that it not be used in conjunction with an operating system of
choice.
In Morton Salt Co. v. G.S. Suppiger Co., 314 U.S. 488 (1942), the
Supreme Court examined the use of the patent monopoly in a machine for
depositing salt tablets to force licensees to use only salt tablets
manufactured by the patent holder. The court said: =93The public policy
which includes inventions within the granted monopoly excludes from it
all that is not embraced in the invention. It equally forbids the use
of the patent to secure an exclusive right or limited monopoly not
granted by the Patent Office and which it is contrary to public policy
to grant. (Id. at 492.)
And this line of reasoning is not limited to patent and trademark law.
Morton Salt itself noted with approval the application of this doctrine
to copyrights. (Id. at 494.) In United States v. Paramount Pictures,
Inc., 334 U.S. 131 (1948), the Supreme Court further explained the
limitations on copyright power in the context of =93block booking=94 =96 =
=93the
practice of licensing, or offering for license, one feature or group of
features on condition that the exhibitor will also license another
feature or group of features released by the distributors during a given
period.=94 (Id. at 156.) Like patent law, the exclusive right granted
under the Copyright Act does not include any privilege to =93add to the
monopoly of the copyright in violation of the principle of the patent
cases involving tying clauses.=94 (Id. at 158.)
>From these foundations, the doctrine of copyright misuse has developed
both as a violation of antitrust law and as an affirmative defense
against copyright infringement when the copyright holder, by means of an
over-reaching license or other method of control, tries =93to secure an
exclusive right or limited monopoly not granted by the [Copyright]
Office and which it is contrary to public policy to grant.=94 =
(Lasercomb
Am., Inc. v. Reynolds, 911 F.2d 970, 976 (4th Cir. 1990), quoting from
Morton Salt, 314 U.S. at 491.) Moreover, copyright misuse is such a
violation of public policy that some courts will not require that the
person against whom the misuse is directed be a party to the litigation.
=93[T]he fact that appellants here were not parties to one of =
Lasercomb=92s
standard license agreements is inapposite to their copyright misuse
defense.=94 Lasercomb, 911 F.2d at 979.)
United States courts have a long history of recognizing that licensing
terms which have the purpose and effect of voiding the boundary around
the exclusive rights of the copyright holder, thereby enlarging the
copyright holder=92s universe of control, constitute misuse of =
copyrights
and should be void as against public policy. The same should be true
where EULAs are used to the same end. =93Sound policy rationales =
support
the analysis of those courts that have found shrinkwrap licenses to be
unenforceable. A system of =91licensing=92 which grants software =
publishers
this degree of unchecked power to control the market deserves to be the
object of careful scrutiny.=94 (Softman Prods. Co. v. Adobe Sys., Inc.,
171 F. Supp. 2d 1075, 1091 (C.D. Cal. 2001).) The Softman court was
quite critical of Adobe=92s efforts to compel third-parties to =
relinquish
the rights they enjoy under the Copyright Act through use of an end-user
license agreement =96 in that case, a =93license=94 that purported to =
make the
third party waive its rights under Section 109 to resell lawfully made
copies without Adobe=92s consent. =93The Court finds that the =
provisions
contained in Adobe=92s EULA purport to diminish the rights of customers =
to
use the software in ways ordinarily enjoyed by customers under copyright
law. Therefore, these restrictions appear to be inconsistent with the
balance of rights set forth in intellectual property law.=94 (Id. at =
1090
(footnote omitted).)=20
Indeed, a contrary result would be untenable, for it would manage =93to
transform a contractual term that software purveyors unilaterally
include in their contracts into a binding provision on the world =96 =
even
on parties who are not in privity of contract =96 and one that, =
moreover,
undoes the dictates of Congress by undermining an essential feature of
the Copyright Act!=94 2 M. Nimmer & D. Nimmer, NIMMER ON COPYRIGHT =A7
8.12[B][1][d][i] (2002) (exclamation point in original).=20
The United States is not alone in this. In the United Kingdom, the
Commission on Intellectual Property Rights recently concluded that
=93Where suppliers of digital information or software attempt to =
restrict
=91fair use=92 rights by contract provisions associated with the
distribution of digital material, the relevant contract provisions may
be treated as void.=94 (Commission on Intellectual Property Rights,
Integrating Intellectual property Rights and Development Policy:
Executive Summary, September 2002, at 22.)
In Australia, the Copyright Law Review Committee recommends that the
Australian Copyright Act =93be amended to provide that an agreement, or =
a
provision of an agreement, that excludes or modifies, or has the effect
of excluding or modifying, the operation of [certain limitations upon
the rights of copyright holders] has no effect.=94 (Recommendation =
7.49,
Copyright Law review Committee, Copyright and Contract, Commonwealth of
Australia 2002.) =20
It is not my custom to go into this much detail when I=92m not =93on the
meter,=94 but I feel deeply that it is not just developers who may lose
out if these bogus licenses are allowed to prevail. It is also the
public, that stands to gain from the innovative new works and uses
created by the developers, who would suffer as well. But one
disclaimer: Mr. Peterson will likely soon be licensed to practice law,
and he obviously has an opinion different from mine, so don=92t take =
this
as legal advice =96 check with a lawyer whose judgment you trust before
thumbing your nose at an offensive EULA.
John
__________________
John T. Mitchell
-----Original Message-----
From: John V. Petersen [mailto:John.V.Petersen@comcast.net]=20
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:15 AM
To: John@interactionlaw.com
Cc: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Commentary on your article: Microsoft Risks Copyright Impotence
<snip>
Author: Stephen Russell
Posted: 2003-05-05 07:10:00 Link
>>It is not my custom to go into this much detail when Iââ¬â¢m not ââ¬Åon the
meter,ââ¬Â but I feel deeply that it is not just developers who may lose
out if these bogus licenses are allowed to prevail. It is also the
public, that stands to gain from the innovative new works and uses
created by the developers, who would suffer as well.
<JVP swipe removed :)>
Great reply. All of his talk about on the meter, I'd guess he was an
attorney.
Stephen Russell
S.R. & Associates
Memphis TN 38115
901.246-0159
-----Original Message-----
From: profox-bounces@leafe.com [mailto:profox-bounces@leafe.com]On
Behalf Of John T. Mitchell
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 11:51 PM
To: profox@leafe.com
Cc: 'John V. Petersen'
Subject: RE: Commentary on your article: Microsoft Risks Copyright
Impotence