Ooooooh.

The Great and Powerful JiViP has spoken to us mere mortals from his Burning

Bush! Oh, we Genuflect to you; Omniscient, Omnipotent JiViP!

So when M$ show up at your door, Malcolm, send them to our God JiViP for His

Clarification.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Malcolm Greene" <mgreene@bdurham.com>

To: <profox@leafe.com>

Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:15 AM

Subject: RE: EULA question regarding distribution of VFP runtime files to

WINDOWS platforms (was off-topic: Preview of VFP/Europa)

Thanks John!

Malcolm

-----Original Message-----

From: profox-admin@leafe.com [mailto:profox-admin@leafe.com]On Behalf Of

John V. Petersen

Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:16 PM

To: profox@leafe.com

Subject: RE: EULA question regarding distribution of VFP runtime files

to WINDOWS platforms (was off-topic: Preview of VFP/Europa)

My take is this...the MSM is a wrapper for the distributable components.

IMO, if you wanted to distribute VFP without the MSM's, so long as the

contained runtimes were distributed only on a MS-Windows platform, you

would be fine. How you manage that process is up to you...

Again, just my opinion, but I think it is a reasonable one...

< JVP >

-----Original Message-----

From: profox-admin@leafe.com [mailto:profox-admin@leafe.com] On Behalf

Of Malcolm Greene

Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 10:59 AM

To: profox@leafe.com

Subject: EULA question regarding distribution of VFP runtime files to

WINDOWS platforms (was off-topic: Preview of VFP/Europa)

JVP, others,

I'm looking for some opinions regarding the VFP 8 EULA agreement as it

relates to the distribution of VFP 8 runtime files to WINDOWS platforms.

1. Does the VFP 8 EULA agreement require us to distribute VFP runtime

files solely in an MSM format thereby restricting us from using 3rd

party Setup utilities not based on Windows Installer technology? The

text in question comes from section 2.3 "so long as you redistribute

such content in its entirety and do not modify such content in any way"

a) In other words, does that mean that we are also restricted from

distributing Self-Extracting zip file collections of our VFP 8

application? (We have several large corporate customers who request a

set of files vs. a formal setup. They review the individual files that

we distribute with our application and decide which files they want to

distribute in their environment and where these files should go)

b) Does this restriction mean that if one of our client's corrupts a VFP

8 runtime file that we are legally required to have the user re-install

our application from scratch vs. sending the user the corrupted or

deleted file?

c) Do you see any reasonable interpretation of the EULA that might allow

the distribution of VFP 8 runtime files separate from the MSM packaging,

i.e. if we redistribute the unmodified content of the MSM files vs. the

MSM files themselves?

2. Is there anything in the EULA agreement that restricts us from

distributing VFP 8 applications to the Windows 95 platform?

3. Is there resource at Microsoft where we can send such questions for

an unambiguous - yes or no answer?

Thanks!

Malcolm

-----Original Message-----

From: profox-admin@leafe.com [mailto:profox-admin@leafe.com]On Behalf Of

John V. Petersen

Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 6:57 AM

To: profox@leafe.com

Subject: RE: [OT] Preview of VFP/Europa

But what about section's 2 and 3????? Yes, I can justify "that" in terms

of the EULA... <s>

2. ADDITIONAL LICENSE RIGHTS -- REDISTRIBUTABLE CODE. In addition

to the rights granted in Section 1, certain portions of the Software, as

described in this Section 2, are provided to you with additional license

rights. These additional license rights are conditioned upon your

compliance with the distribution requirements and license limitations

described in Section 3.

2.1 Sample Code. Microsoft grants you a limited,

nonexclusive, royalty-free license to: (a) use and modify the source

code version of those portions of the Software identified as "Samples"

in REDIST.TXT or elsewhere in the Software ("Sample Code") for the sole

purposes of designing, developing, and testing your software product(s),

and (b) reproduce and distribute the Sample Code, along with any

modifications thereof, in object and/or source code form. For

applicable redistribution requirements for Sample Code, see Section 3.1

below.

2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a

limited, nonexclusive, royalty-free license to reproduce and distribute

the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT

("Redistributable Code"). For general redistribution requirements for

Redistributable Code, see Section 3.1 below.

2.3 Redistributable Code-Microsoft Merge Modules ("MSM").

Microsoft grants you a limited, nonexclusive, royalty-free license to

reproduce and distribute the content of MSM file(s) listed in REDIST.TXT

in the manner described in the Software documentation only so long as

you redistribute such content in its entirety and do not modify such

content in any way. For all other applicable redistribution

requirements for MSM files, see Section 3.1 below.

2.4 Redistributable Code-Visual C++: Microsoft Foundation

Classes (MFC), Active Template Libraries (ATL), and C runtimes (CRTs).

If this EULA accompanies Visual C++, then in addition to the rights

granted in Section 1, Microsoft grants you a license to use and modify

the source code version of those portions of the Software that are

identified as MFC, ATL, or CRTs (collectively, the "VC

Redistributables"), for the sole purposes of designing, developing, and

testing your software product(s). Provided you comply with Section 3.1

and you rename any files created by you that are included in the

Licensee Software (defined below), Microsoft grants you a limited,

nonexclusive, royalty-free license to reproduce and distribute the

object code version of the VC Redistributables, including any

modifications you make. For purposes of this section, "modifications"

shall mean enhancements to the functionality of the VC Redistributables.

For all other applicable redistribution requirements for VC

Redistributables

3. DISTRIBUTION REQUIREMENTS AND OTHER LICENSE RIGHTS AND

LIMITATIONS. If you choose to exercise your rights under Section 2, any

redistribution by you is subject to your compliance with Section 3.1;

some of the Redistributable Code has additional limited use rights

described in Section 3.2.

3.1 General Distribution Requirements.

(a) If you choose to redistribute Sample Code, or

Redistributable Code (collectively, the "Redistributables") as described

in Section 2, you agree: (i) except as otherwise noted in Section 2.1

(Sample Code), to distribute the Redistributables only in object code

form and in conjunction with and as a part of a software application

product developed by you that adds significant and primary functionality

to the Redistributables ("Licensee Software"); (ii) that the

Redistributables only operate in conjunction with Microsoft Windows

platforms; (iii) that if the Licensee Software is distributed beyond

Licensee's premises or externally from Licensee's organization, to

distribute the Licensee Software containing the Redistributables

pursuant to an end user license agreement (which may be

"break-the-seal", "click-wrap" or signed), with terms no less protective

than those contained in this EULA; (iv) not to use Microsoft's name,

logo, or trademarks to market the Licensee Software; (v) to display your

own valid copyright notice which shall be sufficient to protect

Microsoft's copyright in the Software; (vi) not to remove or obscure any

copyright, trademark or patent notices that appear on the Software as

delivered to you; (vii) to indemnify, hold harmless, and defend

Microsoft from and against any claims or lawsuits, including attorney's

fees, that arise or result from the use or distribution of the Licensee

Software; (viii) to otherwise comply with the terms of this EULA; and

(ix) agree that Microsoft reserves all rights not expressly granted.

You also agree not to permit further distribution of the

Redistributables by your end users except you may permit further

redistribution of the Redistributables by your distributors to your

end-user customers if your distributors only distribute the

Redistributables in conjunction with, and as part of, the Licensee

Software, you comply with all other terms of this EULA, and your

distributors comply with all restrictions of this EULA that are

applicable to you.

(b) If you use the Redistributables, then in addition to

your compliance with the applicable distribution requirements described

for the Redistributables, the following also applies. Your license

rights to the Redistributables are conditioned upon your not (i)

creating derivative works of the Redistributables in any manner that

would cause the Redistributables in whole or in part to become subject

to any of the terms of an Excluded License; or (ii) distributing the

Redistributables (or derivative works thereof) in any manner that would

cause the Redistributables to become subject to any of the terms of an

Excluded License. An "Excluded License" is any license that requires as

a condition of use, modification and/or distribution of software subject

to the Excluded License, that such software or other software combined

and/or distributed with such software be (x) disclosed or distributed in

source code form; (y) licensed for the purpose of making derivative

works; or (z) redistributable at no charge.

3.2 Additional Distribution Requirements for Certain

Redistributable Code. If you choose to redistribute the files discussed

in this Section, then in addition to the terms of Section 3.1, you must

ALSO comply with the following.

(a) Microsoft SQL Server Desktop Engine ("MSDE"). If you

redistribute MSDE you agree to comply with the following additional

requirements: (a) Licensee Software shall not substantially duplicate

the capabilities of Microsoft Access or, in the reasonable opinion of

Microsoft, compete with same; and (b) unless Licensee Software requires

your customers to license Microsoft Access in order to operate, you

shall not reproduce or use MSDE for commercial distribution in

conjunction with a general purpose word processing, spreadsheet or

database management software product, or an integrated work or product

suite whose components include a general purpose word processing,

spreadsheet, or database management software product except for the

exclusive use of importing data to the various formats supported by

Microsoft Access. A product that includes limited word processing,

spreadsheet or database components along with other components which

provide significant and primary value, such as an accounting product

with limited spreadsheet capability, is not considered to be a "general

purpose" product.

(b) Microsoft Data Access Components. If you redistribute

the Microsoft Data Access Component file identified as MDAC_TYP.EXE, you

also agree to redistribute such file in object code only in conjunction

with and as a part of a Licensee Software developed by you with a

Microsoft development tool product that adds significant and primary

functionality to MDAC_TYP.EXE.

3.3 Separation of Components. The Software is licensed as a

single product. Its component parts may not be separated for use by

more than one user.

3.4 Benchmark Testing. The Software may contain the

Microsoft .NET Framework. You may not disclose the results of any

benchmark test of the .NET Framework component of the Software to any

third party without Microsoft's prior written approval.

[excessive quoting removed by server]

I suspect we could take the EULA stuff [OT]. What'cha think?

Chet

----- Original Message -----

From: "Ed Leafe" <ed@leafe.com>

To: <profox@leafe.com>

Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:23 PM

Subject: Re: EULA question regarding distribution of VFP runtime files to

WINDOWS platforms (was off-topic: Preview of VFP/Europa)

> On Tuesday, April 29, 2003, at 12:21 PM, John V. Petersen wrote:

>

> > MS monitors this list and by now, know what you are doing.

>

> I've forwarded every single posting on this issue to Ken, at his

> request.

>

> > That is why I make certain statements up here...not for the benefit of

> > the general

> > public. But rather, for the benefit of a few "interested" readers.

> > Hopefully, a few thought processes will take root...

>

> Oh, I'm sure that certain thoughts have taken root as a result of your

> posts. I just don't think that they are the thoughts you intended,

> judging by the feedback I've gotten.

>

> > To be fair, Whil is in a no win situation. If he tests the waters, his

> > hand was forced...thanks to yours truly. If he does nothing, he

> > concedes

> > that this was all a ploy at self promotion...

>

> Bzzzzt! False Dilemma fallacy, with a touch of Begging the Question

> added for good measure.

>

> C'mon, John, I was dissecting crap like that back in high school.

>

> ___/

> /

> __/

> /

> ____/

> Ed Leafe

> http://leafe.com/

> http://opentech.leafe.com

>

>

[excessive quoting removed by server]