Ed Leafe wrote:
> On Dec 30, 2007, at 2:56 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:
>
>> yes. so what? "release often" is considered a good thing.
>
> So what? Indeed! We have so much time available that we simply do
> not know what to do with ourselves!
>
>> That's the same problem Feltmans have. "it takes us a full day to
>> bundle up a
>> new version" (to be fair, that was years ago, and I think they did
>> a web
>> updater too.)
>
> You seem to be asking for a new release up to several times a day,
> which is what can happen with Web Update. Also, Web Update works at
> both the framework level and the individual tool level, so if I want
> to release a change to, say, Editor.py, I couldn't just set Web
> Update for the Editor tool; no, instead you would prefer that I
> create a complete release, update the several references to the
> "current" release on the website, and generally spend a few hours
> taking care of all of that, rather than take 20 seconds to update a
> web form.
I don't see what the difference between Web Update and a release. other than
you have streamlined the Web Update and not the release process.
It really takes you hours?
>
>> Updating is not a new problem. I'm sure you have heard of it, but
>> just incase
>> you missed it:
>>
>> "little overhead for build/release/install mechanics."
>> http://docs.python.org/dist/dist.html
>
> Uh, yeah.
>
>> I think you are re-inventing the wheel. "run an app as root" is not
>> something
>> everyone is going to accept. Run the IDE as root is just as bad.
>> This reeks of the "default user gets Admin privs" that hunts Windows.
>
> That's just dumb. Sorry, but it is.
glad we agree.
>
> If you have a Python installation that requires admin privs to
> change, and you install a Python package into that, you will need
> admin privs. Period. This isn't something that Dabo "invented"; it's
> the way that all packages work.
>
> You don't need admin privs to update any of the tools unless you
> place them in a location that requires admin privs. Again, this is
> nothing specific to Dabo.
>
From what you and others have said, the Web Update needs to be run by root, and
the only place that exists is an app. I am not disputing the ground rules, I am
pointing out you have not provided a clean way for an admin to do the updates.
"as root, run this app that does who knows what" is not clean.
>> my crystal ball shows you spending a bunch of time trying to
>> replicate what
>> distutils does, and at some point tearing it out and using
>> distutils. so hurry
>> up :)
>
> So why haven't you written all this for us already? I would be glad
> to be humbled by you pointing out our incredible incompetence.
>
You are going to either fix the current code or replace it with existing code.
I have tried to supply code, and it was too frustrating.
>> Seriously, updating modules shouldn't be this complicated.
>
> It isn't. Wishing for magical non-admin powers to change admin-
> protected stuff is.
>
You considered it complicated enough that you rolled your own updater instead of
making use of existing code.
you think I want magic? you don't see what the problem is I am getting at.
Carl K
©2007 Carl Karsten |
